Speakers

[Ivor]

A question I've been mulling over recently is whether speakers have improved much in recent years. I haven't kept abreast of new hifi that much, so I find myself lusting after speakers that were highly rated when I was a teenager. It's hard to know how they would compare to the current crop of hifi magazine darlings. Obviously some designs are classics (Quads and Tannoys are great examples) but I wonder about speakers from the 80s and 90s.

At the Hifi show in Bewleys Leopardstown Alan Sircom (HiFi+, Absolute Sound etc.) was asked where the greatest improvements were over the past few decades... he reckoned it was in speakers.

[Diapason]

That's interesting, but it won't help stave off upgradeitis at all! I certainly agree with Fran that lower and middle priced hifi has come on dramatically.

[cybot]

Then there's the whole area of super tweeters from the likes of Townsend and Audiosmile. What do they really bring to the party? More spaciousness? Room filling treble? Faster bass? I've always been intrigued especially for such a relatively small outlay but...... anything to do with extra treble energy sets my alarm bells ringing :) What do others think?

[DaveF]

Then there's the whole area of super tweeters from the likes of Townsend and Audiosmile. What do they really bring to the party? More spaciousness? Room filling treble? Faster bass? I've always been intrigued especially for such a relatively small outlay but...... anything to do with extra treble energy sets my alarm bells ringing :) What do others think?

I have to say I'm sceptical about the whole super tweeter thing. I know many people swear by them. From what I gather, super tweeters 'work' by impacting the audible HF range and by modifying the power response and dispersion characteristics which give a noticable improvement to the overall sound.
But..............as far as I know, most if not all recording microphones only go to 20KHz so they record nothing above that, therefore no useful 'data' ends up on the recorded media above 20KHz in the first place. So what's the point of needing supertweeters then?
If they really do have an impact then I can only conclude that microphones ARE actually sensitive to freq's above 20KHz despite their specs saying otherwise.

[Diapason]

The only supertweeters I heard were in Tony's gaff, and they were audibly providing frequencies below 20kHz (and realistically less than that, given that I could hear them!) so I don't really know what's going on there. They certainly added sparkle, but they added it in an area I think most normal tweeters should be able to go. If my speakers can go to 20kHz I'm happy with that, thanks very much.

[Ivor]

I've had limited exposure to super tweeters but really they seem to add only a more pronounced "stereo" effect and, as stated, "sparkle". I know, and fully accept, that it's all a matter of taste but if your speakers need them then there's something wrong with your speakers. That said treble has never been a big thing with me, as long as it's accurate I don't need more of it. Actually I'm kinda the same about bass.

[Fran]

I'd say microphones can record sound well over 20kHz, but they are only manufactured within a given spec ie guaranteed to meet certain values between 20-20kHz.


I too though am very unconvinced. If I was building a multiway speaker from scratch, and there were 2 identical tweeters, one to 20kHz and one to 50kHz, I probably would use the 50kHz one unless I had good reason not to.

Leaving aside the value part of the equation, I think they may have a place in some systems. A good example would be a full range horn based on a 10" or 12" driver. These typically only get to 14-16kHz and adding a supertweeter there may add back in something missing. But the caveat is that you would need to hook it up, measure the output and carefully select the crossover values to get the correct response without a massive boost at say 17kHz - which will be audible as harmonics lower down even if your ears don't go to 17kHz.

Fran

[cybot]

Great stuff lads you've answered all my doubts.....I DEFINITELY don't need them :) But they are a very contentious little conundrum, aren't they. I always have a niggling doubt when things can't be explained away! Great start to this thread. Well done Adrian :)

[Diapason]

17kHz - which will be audible as harmonics lower down even if your ears don't go to 17kHz.

I'm not at all convinced of this either, but maybe that's for another thread.

[tony]

The only supertweeters I heard were in Tony's gaff, and they were audibly providing frequencies below 20kHz (and realistically less than that, given that I could hear them!) so I don't really know what's going on there. They certainly added sparkle, but they added it in an area I think most normal tweeters should be able to go. If my speakers can go to 20kHz I'm happy with that, thanks very much.

I was away this week so only back now. The supertweeters you heard Simon well one wasn't working at the time! Pearse repaired it when he got it home. The audiosmiles that I ended up getting as they appeared on PFM at a kind of reasonable price and as they had been recommended across a number of forums are a completely different kettle of fish to the townshends.Just ask Fran or John for details! They are upfront in your face and seem to operate in the lower reaches not the higher end above normal hearing which is where i believe the townsends operate.
These particular ones only have two settings (high and low) Low is too much for some people.The townshends are adjustable from nothing to full on. The audiosmiles are either an acquired taste or ear piercers dependent on your view. I think they work with some tracks and give cymbals a clean tight sound. Without them to be honest there is enough in the quad treble panels to suit most tastes. I have them so happy enough to use them and take them out every now and then. I would need to try this again but when using the zuma(pearse's) they seem to be less irritating to one punter who will remain unnamed.

Fran made a good point about them probably working very well with 57's that have treble panels that are down on performance. His view was my panels were fine and didn't need anything.

As for you Dermot I think they might work with the castle howards as they are heavy in the bass I would think. If you were considering something the townshends are the ones to go for as the audiosmiles have the filters either changed or adjusted to whatever speakers they are being used with.