Upgraditis part 1: Subwoofers

[Diapason]

As I alluded to elsewhere, I'm getting a bit of an itch again, I'm a bit "bored" of the sound of my system, its failings are annoying me more and more, all the usual stuff. So in the spirit of testing alternative options, I've borrowed a couple of subwoofers recently to see how I feel about adding one to the system.

First up was the REL T7. It's probably safe to say that this sub is targeting a different level than maybe I'd be looking for, but it was a very interesting proof of concept. The marriage with the Kharmas wasn't ideal, but I had great fun with it and played lots of CDs I wouldn't normally listen to at downright hooligan levels. Ultimately it didn't really go deep enough and it was a bit woolly compared to the speed of the main speakers, so I'm now trying out the S5. Despite being significantly larger (I was concerned that putting it in place might involve a slipped disc or two) it's MUCH more subtle. Of course, this is a good thing and I feel it's integrating better with the main speakers, adding weight and depth without sounding like a gangsta rapper's car. It's a wonderful thing to hear those organ pedals in their full glory, and I only heard the sound of cracking plaster once.

All told then, I'm quite enjoying my time with the REL, it's giving me something that I've definitely been missing, and I can see the attraction. However, it doesn't fundamentally change the sound of my system (it just adds more) and I suspect that feeling of boredom won't be shifted by a sub alone. I'm also concerned that I'll never be finished setting levels and crossovers and trying to integrate it, but maybe that's less of an issue as time goes on. Am I going to buy it? I'm really tempted, but I don't think so. I think a good sub would be the icing on the cake, but I'm just not sure I have a cake I'm ready to put icing on yet.

[DaveF]

Why did you explore the sub route? I thought your issues were mostly on the other end of the spectrum. That said, I would say that the Kharmas do lack a little bit of weight sometimes. And weight adds more warmth to a dregree in my experience anyway.

[Sligolad]

I have a B&W PV1D sitting in a back room doing nothing Simon if you want to play with it.
You can hook it up to a laptop while listening and change settings on the fly so a good toy if nothing else!!
Cheers, Pearse.

[cybot]

Great review Simon. You should join the comedy circuit though :) Anyway what are your speakers 'failings'? For what it's worth I've never been a believer of subs for all the reasons you've already outlined. So.....what is it you want?

[Adrian]

And this is just part 1... !!!!!!!

"Getting a bit bored" "its failings are annoying me more and more, all the usual stuff"

Well before you start doing some serious changing out of components... I think you should get some of the gang over to have a listen.

A second or 3rd set of ears can shed new light / perspective. In addition... I believe some components work well at different volume levels, or perhaps rephrasing that to say... when at higher volume levels the weakness of a particular component becomes more exposed.

For example... I took the plunge on buying a new TT cartridge... it's a good cartridge and I enjoy it very much. But I don't listen to loud volume levels.... when I had some friends over... the volume got turned up.... and then it became very evident that the cart was not that great.

I suppose it is a bit like having a performance car... when driving around town... it's just like any other normal family car.... it's only when you are on a long trip, out on the open road that the "performance car" comes into it's own.

Good idea on trying out a sub... nothing ventured nothing gained... but as Ivor says... you have to "trust your ears"... perhaps if you were to visit other members with other equipment and perhaps you may find a sound that appeals to you?

[Diapason]

Thanks Pearse, I might take you up on that in due course. It would be good to see how a PV1 would sound in the man cave, I always liked it whenever I heard it.

DaveF et al, your questions are good, and deserve a proper discussion about what I'm looking to improve/fix and what sound I'm really looking for. I'll try to get to that shortly. In the meantime, a quick answer of why I started with subs is:
- I want a greater sense of scale for big works;
- Most main speakers can't hope to play organ pedals accurately on their own, they just don't go low enough;
- I have always had bass problems in the room leading to compromised positions for the main speakers, so I hoped a sub would help free up speaker positioning while improving room-related issues;
- Ciaran has a sub and it sounds great with his Kharmas!

[jaybee]

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2008/09/lou ... the-world/

surely something that looks like an organ will be your best bet?

[Adrian]

Well if it is scale / soundstage you are after.... perhaps you should be looking at speakers with physically BIGGER drivers.

Bigger drivers can displace a greater volume of air, i.e. a 8" cone will displace more air than a 6" cone.

I'm using B&W speakers... and believe me a 15" driver displaces a lot more air than a 8".

As the Americans say.... "You can't beat cubes"!!

[cybot]

And this is just part 1... !!!!!!!

"Getting a bit bored" "its failings are annoying me more and more, all the usual stuff"

Well before you start doing some serious changing out of components... I think you should get some of the gang over to have a listen.

A second or 3rd set of ears can shed new light / perspective. In addition... I believe some components work well at different volume levels, or perhaps rephrasing that to say... when at higher volume levels the weakness of a particular component becomes more exposed.

For example... I took the plunge on buying a new TT cartridge... it's a good cartridge and I enjoy it very much. But I don't listen to loud volume levels.... when I had some friends over... the volume got turned up.... and then it became very evident that the cart was not that great.

I suppose it is a bit like having a performance car... when driving around town... it's just like any other normal family car.... it's only when you are on a long trip, out on the open road that the "performance car" comes into it's own.

Good idea on trying out a sub... nothing ventured nothing gained... but as Ivor says... you have to "trust your ears"... perhaps if you were to visit other members with other equipment and perhaps you may find a sound that appeals to you?

I've ALWAYS believed that. Well put Adrian!

[Ivor]

Subs are funny beasts. You really have to play about with settings for quite a while to get the balance right. Assuming you were using the Neutonik REL cable then integration is a lot easier but finding the point at which you want the sub to smoothly augment the sound is still tricky. I found trial and error over a lot of listening did it. That said it was mostly used for cinema and only used for music stereo as a curiosity. An entirely subjective view but I didn't think it added much in terms of musicality to my system and I'm using bass light Quads!