Tír Na HiFi

Diapason wrote:Ciaran, I didn't recognise you without your avatar's clothes on! And yes, I'll be very interested in your opinion in due course.
I borrowed a Devialet 200 from the shop on Friday evening to see how a little more grip might sound. Initial impressions were very mixed, but improved significantly when I wired the left channel in the correct phase...
So, with the caveat that I'm taking analogue outs from the CD player (pointless with a Devialet but necessary in my system) it would seem that I gain some control but lose some valvey magic. No surprise really, but my gut says I'm not ready to give up the valves yet.

Very curious about Devialet with SF. I tried with Elipsas in the past other class D (or equivalent) amps like Nuforce Ref9 last version or Belcanto with very poor results. If seems Elipsas and Class D are not compatible.
The Vitus italian dealer who is in Torino too (dptrade.it) is plenty of Devialets in his shop but they never involved me (phantoms speaker too: good idea but nothing else imho).

Ciaran wrote: My head sometimes tells me that solid state makes a lot of sense, but any attempts I've made to try them at home have resulted in me being dissatisfied, turning up the volume because that sounds a bit better, then quickly being dissatisfied, turning up the volume because that sounds a bit better, then quickly being dissatisfied, turning up the volume because that sounds a bit better, then ... realising my ears are ringing and still not enjoying the sound!

That's actually very similar to my testing over the weekend. Continually pushing up the volume until I've reached insane levels without really noticing. You could argue that's a sign of good clean power, but in reality I'm searching for a certain "something" that isn't coming through. Like yourself, I'd love solid state (or even better, Class D) to work well, as I'm a bit tired of the heat of valves and the fact that each monoblock is sucking 450w from the wall. It's not very green, certainly!

Ciaran wrote:I have the strong sense that I need to change speakers to get a worthwhile improvement in sound quality, but I'm still really enjoying my system, I still put discs on and feel "That really sounds great!" even though the system has been unchanged for a long time. So that itch seems to have abated.

Don't touch anything!!! You're one of the lucky ones.

Ciaran wrote:Would it be safe to go and listen to the Elipsas? But how can I resist!?!

I think it would be perfectly safe for you, because I don't think there's any danger of you going home and finding your own system lacking in any way. You may find some things done differently, but the Kharmas work so well in your room and with the rest of your equipment that I can barely imagine a more balanced sound.

nige2000 wrote: Doubt that's any sort of a test, was there anything else maybe like a one thing well amp in the shop?

Racking up a sole purpose dual mono valve amp setup vs a multifunction device that is rather appealing to the eye ;)
Might not be that fair

Yeah, it wasn't really a fair test (although you might be being unfair to the Devialet there yourself ;) ) but it helped to answer one important question for me, which was whether my own amps were being affected by the impedance dips. The answer is basically that they're not struggling as much as I thought they might, and as things stand I'm looking forward to attaching them up again. This is good news!

But yeah, the Devialet is probably not the ideal "amp" for me anyway, for a variety of reasons. Annoyingly enough, my laptop decided it didn't want to play nicely via USB at all so I couldn't really test the digital inputs properly. I hooked up a NUC at one point (running Openelec, not exactly the audiophile choice) and it sounded quite good, but I haven't ripped any classical discs yet so couldn't really give it the test I want. More importantly, the NUC was needed for Pixar duty on a rainy weekend so was quickly taken back to the TV again. I know that wouldn't have passed computer audio muster anyway, but I would have been interested to compare a few discs via analogue outs from Wadia vs USB in from computer. But to be honest, that's all a distraction and nothing to do with listening and enjoying, so I'm not really bothered. Taking the Devialet route would take me in a direction I don't really want to go, so it's not a real contender for now anyway.

There's nothing more interesting in the shop at the mo I don't think, although I'll obviously be keeping in contact.

Maz65 wrote: Very curious about Devialet with SF. I tried with Elipsas in the past other class D (or equivalent) amps like Nuforce Ref9 last version or Belcanto with very poor results. If seems Elipsas and Class D are not compatible.
The Vitus italian dealer who is in Torino too (dptrade.it) is plenty of Devialets in his shop but they never involved me (phantoms speaker too: good idea but nothing else imho).

I like the Devialet in some systems, no doubt about it, but I agree with you about the combination with the Elipsas. They just don't seem to complement each other somehow. As I said above, I really want Class D to work for me and I really like what it can do in some circumstances, but I've never bought a Class D amp yet which probably says something. We'll see how we get on with serious solid state muscle (when I can eventually get my hands on some) but deep down I strongly suspect I'll be sticking with glowing bottles.

That's interesting Simon. I would have expected that the Devialet would impress you more than it did. But the Dev is pretty neutral and wont add bloom or magic, so it must be added elsewhere in the system if the Dev is there.


Just a point on Devialet being labelled a Class D amp, it's just as much a Class A amp as it is Class D. The actual Class A bit is what's connected to the speakers with the Class D bit in parallel to provide the extra current when required. So its really a Class ADH (Class A,D Hybrid), nothing else like it on market that I know of.

Good to see you back on the forum Ciaran. I'm about to come full circle on the Kharmas myself. I think they're hard to beat. (when you have a proper working pair!)

You're right Dave, definitely worth pointing out that the Devialet is a different beast to normal Class D.

The funny thing is that when I tried this test before (Wadia connected to Devialet, with Kharmas then) I thought it really gave a clean and open kind of sound that I found very compelling and nearly went for. This time, it sounds slightly closed in if anything, and the whole thing just sounds more "hifi" than I remember. The Devialet definitely provides more control and objectively it's a good sound, don't get me wrong, but I'm just not so inclined to settle in and listen to disc after disc. When it comes to synergy, this setup just doesn't seem to have it.

Would it be bad to admit that I'm quite happy with this result, because I've a big rack to fill and a Devialet just wouldn't do it!?!

Diapason wrote: That's actually very similar to my testing over the weekend. Continually pushing up the volume until I've reached insane levels without really noticing.

This certainly rings a bell for me when it comes to some SS amps. I had this same issue with a Krell Kav 400xi and some Classe amps. Those amps just didn't do the nuances and micro details as well as a valve amp and as a result I kept turning it up.
From a technical point of view this doesn't make much sense as SS amps are quieter and have way less distortion than the majority of valve amps out there. As usual, its probably all down to the implementation in the end.

Diapason wrote:Would it be bad to admit that I'm quite happy with this result, because I've a big rack to fill and a Devialet just wouldn't do it!?!

Real hifi puts your back out as you so eloquently put it last year.

Diapason wrote:

nige2000 wrote: Doubt that's any sort of a test, was there anything else maybe like a one thing well amp in the shop?

Racking up a sole purpose dual mono valve amp setup vs a multifunction device that is rather appealing to the eye ;)
Might not be that fair

Yeah, it wasn't really a fair test (although you might be being unfair to the Devialet there yourself ;) ) but it helped to answer one important question for me, which was whether my own amps were being affected by the impedance dips. The answer is basically that they're not struggling as much as I thought they might, and as things stand I'm looking forward to attaching them up again. This is good news!

yes my reply was deliberately prejudiced to help me make my point :)

But yeah, the Devialet is probably not the ideal "amp" for me anyway, for a variety of reasons. Annoyingly enough, my laptop decided it didn't want to play nicely via USB at all so I couldn't really test the digital inputs properly. I hooked up a NUC at one point (running Openelec, not exactly the audiophile choice) and it sounded quite good, but I haven't ripped any classical discs yet so couldn't really give it the test I want. More importantly, the NUC was needed for Pixar duty on a rainy weekend so was quickly taken back to the TV again. I know that wouldn't have passed computer audio muster anyway, but I would have been interested to compare a few discs via analogue outs from Wadia vs USB in from computer. But to be honest, that's all a distraction and nothing to do with listening and enjoying, so I'm not really bothered. Taking the Devialet route would take me in a direction I don't really want to go, so it's not a real contender for now anyway.

There's nothing more interesting in the shop at the mo I don't think, although I'll obviously be keeping in contact.

with all the "digital" handing that would be in this device i "suspect" it will be a flat/uninvolving, uneasy/mildly harsh
that of course is pure speculation because i have not seen a 200 nevermind heard one

however if you were to test single function mono s/state amps i would be more than happy to take the s/state bashing :)

nige2000 wrote: however if you were to test single function mono s/state amps i would be more than happy to take the s/state bashing :)

LOL, don't worry, I'm getting to it!

I actually put my own amps back on last night and it was an immediate change for the better, IMO. I think that until I'm willing to embrace the full Devialet concept there's no point in pursuing it any further, and I'm just not in that place yet. Next up, I'd like to hear some solid state running in Class A. I might have to wait a while for that to appear, but in the meantime I'm happy to play away with what I have, which is a nice place to be.

Nice one Terry, I've liked the page now!