Invitation : vintage speakers & wine.

[tony]

Wonderful confusion what is the difference between Carlton ii, Carlton !! and Carlton 2 ?????????

Yes Nigel it was interesting day. Francois hasn't bought in to the tweaked CA potential and no attempt was made to suggest it on the day.
The majority of the speakers all had something very desirable and in that particular room the Carltons were everybodies favourite.
It would be I think illogical if they were available at the price on that link to not buy a pair as they really were very nice and as Ivor outlined for long term listening really excellent. Soundstage was really impressive the sense of scale had I think us all taken aback. This session was using a laptop and VLC as the player so you can imagine what potential Pearse and myself where wondering might be unearthed if using say your dac and a good pc.

[panda2rom]

So the difference between the Carlton and Carlton !! or the Carlton !!! is me beeing enthousiastic :)

Cartlon 2, 3, were released ten years later, and had nothing in common with the original Carlton. They were related to the Kef 104. It's a good name anyway :)

-Indeed Tony, if they were available at 200-300 euros, i'd buy myself a few more to get a 7 channel home theater / Hifi system :)
Buying vintage speakers can be excellent value for money, but not to the extent of a miracle :)

What do you mean by Tweaked CA ?
CA like capacitors ? - i didn't replaced the ones in the crossovers, though i aknowledge it would make an improovement.
Falcon acoustics sells a kit for the Kef 105 and i gave it a thought a few times :)
Except i have two young daughters and not enough time :)
On a side note, if the capacitors were really bad, i would have noticed something with the measurement mike at the crossover point (usually 1Khz or 1.5 Khz or 3Khz, for two way speakers).
Well, except for the B&W DM4, they use plastic capacitors, so there is no need for reccaping ! Wich is another thing for them :)

I don't see why VLC should be bad, it's a very serious piece of software :)
Of course there are better DAC... and they are quite expensive :)

[panda2rom]

And before anything, i need to find a better place for the Carlton :)

[Fran]

Ah Francois, just go have a look in the Computer audio forum at the depths of the madness!!

CA=computer audio


The level of difficulty for computer audio is now probably past that of vinyl, and so has finally achieved audiophile status!

alex-gregory-the-two-things-that-really-drew-me-to-vinyl-were-the-expense-and-the-inco-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg (56.49 KiB) Viewed 593 times

[panda2rom]

Oh computer audio...
Yeah i somewhat noticed you guys were into tweaking of comps.
Some are into tweaking CD player. Wich isn't that different :)

To make it short : i've noticed that people usually too much emphasis on what happens before the DAC.
While what happens after makes a big difference :)
I mean, the outpout of a CD player or a DAC, is as important as your pre-amp.

Anyway, room placement and correction are way more important :)
And i should try to find the best spot for them...

[nige2000]

Oh computer audio...
Yeah i somewhat noticed you guys were into tweaking of comps.
Some are into tweaking CD player. Wich isn't that different :)

yes the principles are similar
only due to the complexity of computers its more difficult

To make it short : i've noticed that people usually too much emphasis on what happens before the DAC.
While what happens after makes a big difference :)
I mean, the outpout of a CD player or a DAC, is as important as your pre-amp.

we do lots of that other stuff too its certainly not ignored
besides the end result can only be as good as the source and everything between the electrical wall socket to the speakers and the listening environment is the path of degradation not improvement

Anyway, room placement and correction are way more important :)
And i should try to find the best spot for them...

anyway you'd be right you can't focus one one area alone :)

[tony]

Oh computer audio...
Yeah i somewhat noticed you guys were into tweaking of comps.
Some are into tweaking CD player. Wich isn't that different :)

To make it short : i've noticed that people usually too much emphasis on what happens before the DAC.
While what happens after makes a big difference :)
I mean, the outpout of a CD player or a DAC, is as important as your pre-amp.

Anyway, room placement and correction are way more important :)
And i should try to find the best spot for them...

Quelle Surprise! You have not been contaminated by the 'madness' ah don't worry once you hear you will get the soldering iron out.
Not sure on room correction I have never experienced it and the idea sounds abhorrent to me. It seems to me akin to putting ribena into red wine but maybe if I hear what it does I will be converted. Definitely room placement and bass traps,diffusors etc have a huge role but are ignored by most as seems to involve turning ones room into a ugly sponge pit at huge cost.

Once you hear a good dac and pc you will be on the slippery slope I am sure of that

[panda2rom]

" the end result can only be as good as the source and everything between the electrical wall socket to the speakers and the listening environment is the path of degradation not improvement".
Indeed Nige !
Though, there are priorities.
I mean room acoustic and room placement... it just sums the whole : "the speakers sounded good at showroom/ a friend place/etc... and sound bad at my place".
Sometimes mooving a speaker 20cm can correct a bump in the curve by 3 db ! That's huge. nothing compares to that.
One of these weeks i'll do a few measurement on a speaker to show you how big of a difference it can make.

"Not sure on room correction I have never experienced it and the idea sounds abhorrent to me".
Well tony, for some reason, way too many audiophiles tend to think like you :)
There have been alot of tries to sell speakers with EQ (the first one being McIntosh) and they always somewhat failed commercially. You had the MFB from Philips too... wich is still used by some brands i think :/
And of course the Kef Reference 102 (with its EQ called kube) wich i own... and sound like crap without EQ :)
Lately, high end home cinema amp, do have those kind of feature : they have a mike and do automatic room correction...

-I mean, in France, the guys into high effiency speakers (100db+) tends to stay analog all the way, and don't like the idea of adding an analog EQ...
But on the other hand people into full range and/or open baffle are pretty much into it :)
-You guys having no problem with being/going digital, so there is really no point for ignoring EQ !
I mean technicly, you are just correcting the volume of some frequencies.
And it can allow you / depending on the speakers & room / incredible gain.
(At the expense of the maximum volume output of course).

Well i'd sure like to see/hear one of your modded DAC, and compare it to my Arcam and to my chineese DAC/Amp.

[tony]

" the end result can only be as good as the source and everything between the electrical wall socket to the speakers and the listening environment is the path of degradation not improvement".Indeed Nige !Though, there are priorities.
I mean room acoustic and room placement... it just sums the whole : "the speakers sounded good at showroom/ a friend place/etc... and sound bad at my place".Sometimes mooving a speaker 20cm can correct a bump in the curve by 3 db ! That's huge. nothing compares to that.
One of these weeks i'll do a few measurement on a speaker to show you how big of a difference it can make.
"Not sure on room correction I have never experienced it and the idea sounds abhorrent to me".
Well tony, for some reason, way too many audiophiles tend to think like you :)There have been alot of tries to sell speakers with EQ (the first one being McIntosh) and they always somewhat failed commercially. You had the MFB from Philips too... wich is still used by some brands i think :/And of course the Kef Reference 102 (with its EQ called kube) wich i own... and sound like crap without EQ :)
Lately, high end home cinema amp, do have those kind of feature : they have a mike and do automatic room correction...
-I mean, in France, the guys into high effiency speakers (100db+) tends to stay analog all the way, and don't like the idea of adding an analog EQ...But on the other hand people into full range and/or open baffle are pretty much into it :)
-You guys having no problem with being/going digital, so there is really no point for ignoring EQ !
I mean technicly, you are just correcting the volume of some frequencies.
And it can allow you / depending on the speakers & room / incredible gain.
(At the expense of the maximum volume output of course).
Well i'd sure like to see/hear one of your modded DAC, and compare it to my Arcam and to my chineese DAC/Amp.

Yes all possibly very valid points next time we are meeting up will let you know you might bring your kef charlstons! for a comparison also