What are you listening to?

[fergus]

A complete contrast to the Vivaldi above was this powerful version of Vaughan Williams’ Symphony No. 8....

[Jared]

A member in the other Forum posted this yesterday:

<The most recent issue of Gramophone had a gushing review of a new Beethoven symphony cycle on Glossa with Frans Brüggen conducting the Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century. You have to read between the lines to figure out what is really wrong with this set. When Gramophone states:
Quote:
Brüggen strips it [the Ninth Symphony] of the overbearing bombast encrusted across generations and, in a recreation of beauty, both chaste and potent, phases curve according to melodic or harmonic progressions, paragraphs unfold in long-breathed lines, changes in metre are seamlessly accommodated.


This quotation should be translated as follows: "Here is another wimpy, underpowered, excessively tame Beethoven Ninth Symphony on period instruments."

What is the British passion for such underpowered, unemotional performances? I have heard Brüggen in late Haydn symphonies, and, believe me, the results are hideous. In any event, why is an orchestra entitled "Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century" playing works the earliest of which were written at the beginning of the nineteenth century? Moreover, as I have said previously, listeners who have listened to Brahms, Bruckner, Mahler, Stravinsky, Shostakovich, et al. do not have period ears and cannot possibly have the same impression as the original listeners had even if, somehow, a perfect digital recording had been made of the premiere of, for example, Beethoven's Fifth Symphony and we were able to listen to that recording. Finally, I really doubt if many listeners would want to listen to a recording of any Beethoven symphony played as badly as it was undoubtedly played at its premiere.>


I think everybody is entitled to his opinion, everyone has the right to like or dislike period instruments as much as he wants, but what is very strange is that our friend here has NOT heard the recording, and yet, damns the Gramophone for a very positive review.
Strange to say the least, don´t you think....

Attitudes similar to that are are among the reasons why I left that Forum and will most likely not return to it again.

I am trying to return, it is very difficult though.

Pepe: We know you have strong personal views on music, but they are always well informed and you always couch them in the most positive, inclusive and enthusiastic language, which is why we always enjoy reading your posts... even if we've not heard the Rameau opera to which you refer!

Unfortunately this undercurrent of anti-British bias has long been accepted on the other forum, which has always made me feel uncomfortable.. sure, PG, Gramophone and BBC have always had a slant in their preferences, but this is openly criticised and derided too often.

Fergus & Sean: I've been back over to have a look recently, and I have to say that in reading through a few threads, I find the atmosphere to be worse now than it has ever been... I don't think I'd get much out of returning, to be honest.

[Jared]

A complete contrast to the Vivaldi above was this powerful version of Vaughan Williams’ Symphony No. 8....

now I know you've long struggled with RVW Fergus... and that for me is his least accessible Symphony... how are you finding him these days?

[Seán]

Johann Sebastian Bach
Christen, ätzet diesen Tag (Christians, engrave this day), BWV 63
Bernarda Fink - Soprano,
Claron McFadden - Alto,
Christoph Genz - Tenor,
Dietrich Henschel - Bass,
Monteverdi Choir,
English Baroque Soloists
John Eliot Gardiner - conducting.

On occasion I listen to a performance of a piece of music that is entirely new to me and that really stimulates me on first sitting and some times it takes repeated listening for me to really like a piece of music. Bach's BWV 63 is a Christmas Day Cantata but if truth be told it is a cantata for every day of the year, it is a gorgeous piece of music and Gardiner's approach is gripping. The pulsating rhythms, beautiful choral work and singing of the four soloists is wonderful.

I admire the beauty of Suzuki's Bach but at times I think it's too clean , too clinical even too beautiful or cold perhaps, I prefer Herreweghe's spiritual performances. And now Gardiner's BWV 63 sounds beautiful, the recording quality is superb and the overall performance is spiritually uplifting. I LOVE it. Time to get a copy of his Magnificat perhaps, but that's for another day.

I am really looking forward to exploring the rest of this set

[fergus]

A complete contrast to the Vivaldi above was this powerful version of Vaughan Williams’ Symphony No. 8....

now I know you've long struggled with RVW Fergus... and that for me is his least accessible Symphony... how are you finding him these days?

To be honest Jared I have not listened to his music in a long time but for this LP. I had come to terms somewhat with his music after some initial agonizing but this was a really good performance.

[bombasticDarren]

A complete contrast to the Vivaldi above was this powerful version of Vaughan Williams’ Symphony No. 8....

now I know you've long struggled with RVW Fergus... and that for me is his least accessible Symphony... how are you finding him these days?

Oddly enough, my favourite VW symphony!

[bombasticDarren]

Unfortunately this undercurrent of anti-British bias has long been accepted on the other forum, which has always made me feel uncomfortable.. sure, PG, Gramophone and BBC have always had a slant in their preferences, but this is openly criticised and derided too often.

Fergus & Sean: I've been back over to have a look recently, and I have to say that in reading through a few threads, I find the atmosphere to be worse now than it has ever been... I don't think I'd get much out of returning, to be honest.

I haven't visited that forum in ages. No need. I liked a few of the contributors but some of the more vocal members were just too vocal for me. Trying to impress each other too much most likely. I don't mind other people having different opinions to mine, but I really don't need to feel silly for liking certain stuff. Anyway, if you want a real scrap try a Doctor Who forum!

[fergus]

I haven't visited that forum in ages. No need. I liked a few of the contributors but some of the more vocal members were just too vocal for me. Trying to impress each other too much most likely. I don't mind other people having different opinions to mine, but I really don't need to feel silly for liking certain stuff. Anyway, if you want a real scrap try a Doctor Who forum!

LOL!!! I trust that you fight your own corner there Darren....perhaps even having a different persona to the Darren that we know!!!

[Jose Echenique]

Unfortunately this undercurrent of anti-British bias has long been accepted on the other forum, which has always made me feel uncomfortable.. sure, PG, Gramophone and BBC have always had a slant in their preferences, but this is openly criticised and derided too often.

Fergus & Sean: I've been back over to have a look recently, and I have to say that in reading through a few threads, I find the atmosphere to be worse now than it has ever been... I don't think I'd get much out of returning, to be honest.

I haven't visited that forum in ages. No need. I liked a few of the contributors but some of the more vocal members were just too vocal for me. Trying to impress each other too much most likely. I don't mind other people having different opinions to mine, but I really don't need to feel silly for liking certain stuff. Anyway, if you want a real scrap try a Doctor Who forum!

I have to agree that the other Forum has some very opinionated people. What I felt was very weird (to put it mildly) is that someone had the NERVE to criticize something he has not even heard: "Another Beethoven period instruments fiasco" is the title of the thread, based on a POSITIVE Gramophone review.
It is (needless to say) ridiculous to imply that ALL English people favor period performance practice...maybe because they are passionless, boneless...or whatever?
Hell, traditionally the Dutch and the Germans are the most enthusiastic about period performance, and now the Italians are all over the place.
The Americans still seem to relate vibrato with passion. No vibrato: cold and empty. Lots of vibrato: passionate and warm.
Sigh, too much Coca-Cola and Big Macs.

Still dear Darren and Jared, I urged you both to drop every now and then to CMG just to affirm your loyalty to the Queen and make those guys mad!!!!

[Jose Echenique]

Johann Sebastian Bach
Christen, ätzet diesen Tag (Christians, engrave this day), BWV 63
Bernarda Fink - Soprano,
Claron McFadden - Alto,
Christoph Genz - Tenor,
Dietrich Henschel - Bass,
Monteverdi Choir,
English Baroque Soloists
John Eliot Gardiner - conducting.

On occasion I listen to a performance of a piece of music that is entirely new to me and that really stimulates me on first sitting and some times it takes repeated listening for me to really like a piece of music. Bach's BWV 63 is a Christmas Day Cantata but if truth be told it is a cantata for every day of the year, it is a gorgeous piece of music and Gardiner's approach is gripping. The pulsating rhythms, beautiful choral work and singing of the four soloists is wonderful.

I admire the beauty of Suzuki's Bach but at times I think it's too clean , too clinical even too beautiful or cold perhaps, I prefer Herreweghe's spiritual performances. And now Gardiner's BWV 63 sounds beautiful, the recording quality is superb and the overall performance is spiritually uplifting. I LOVE it. Time to get a copy of his Magnificat perhaps, but that's for another day.

I am really looking forward to exploring the rest of this set

I have a violinist friend who gave me the best description of Suzuki´s Bach: "it´s period performance Bach for those who hate period performance".
Everything is so tidy and clean, the tuning almost always perfect, that some spiritual dimension is indeed lost in the impeccable facade.
I also much prefer Gardiner and Herreweghe.