Power cables

[tony]

I also tried Andy's Dalkey Audio silver cable and prefered it to the others. It was very open and detailed with a solid bass which was well controlled.

I did the same for my 63's, again using Dalkey Audio cables (thanks Andy) I found they provided the best synergy, I reckon it’s an essential change in getting the best from them. I haven’t looked back.

Same here. I have loads of unopened factory bagged good quality kettle leads in a box (from my IT days) around the the house and tried them in hifi in the early days. They worked well enough but Andy's cables were a clear improvement.

Interesting on changing the kettle leads on quad speakers. I didn't see any need. Guy I got them from felt the same. Have to borrow them from you Ivor but even though I would accept the interconnect cable effects I really haven't heard anything on power cords except at nordost demo's and I assume that is just mass hypnosis. I have interchanged nanotec /nordost heimdall and van den hul name interconnects and while I will generally always ensure the 'best' cable is on my preferred source in reality I am hearing no difference that I am aware of.

[Ivor]

Interesting on changing the kettle leads on quad speakers. I didn't see any need. Guy I got them from felt the same. Have to borrow them from you Ivor but even though I would accept the interconnect cable effects I really haven't heard anything on power cords except at nordost demo's and I assume that is just mass hypnosis. I have interchanged nanotec /nordost heimdall and van den hul name interconnects and while I will generally always ensure the 'best' cable is on my preferred source in reality I am hearing no difference that I am aware of.

Well Peter Walker (Mr Quad) was of the view that a metre or so of expensive mains cable would make no difference whatsoever to the millions of miles of wire (slight exaggeration on my part) in a Quad speaker. Most Quad owners would say it has made a difference.

I'm afraid borrowing my speaker power cables would be impossible as one goes to a socket behind a very full bookcase.

[tony]

Interesting on changing the kettle leads on quad speakers. I didn't see any need. Guy I got them from felt the same. Have to borrow them from you Ivor but even though I would accept the interconnect cable effects I really haven't heard anything on power cords except at nordost demo's and I assume that is just mass hypnosis. I have interchanged nanotec /nordost heimdall and van den hul name interconnects and while I will generally always ensure the 'best' cable is on my preferred source in reality I am hearing no difference that I am aware of.

Well Peter Walker (Mr Quad) was of the view that a metre or so of expensive mains cable would make no difference whatsoever to the millions of miles of wire (slight exaggeration on my part) in a Quad speaker. Most Quad owners would say it has made a difference.

I'm afraid borrowing my speaker power cables would be impossible as one goes to a socket behind a very full bookcase.

Jasus I thought a big lad like you could hold the bookshelf on its side and slip a hand behind to extract the cable?
This means I will be forever thinking could me quads have been better. Anne's riposte would be if I went to the gym and took some steriods.
I think I have just forgotten about cables and just happy listening to whats there. Cheaper.

[Rocker]

As someone who has dabbled in the world of hi-fi for thirty odd years, I know that EVERYTHING matters or affects the sound from your system. Even opening or closing the door will 'change' the sound you hear. I would be astonished if the mains cables had no effect. Of course they do. In my experience a good mains loom allows the system to perform as it is designed. And perhaps to sound even better than the designer of the equipment thought possible.

But why limit consideration to the couple of metres of cable between the wall sockets and the hi-fi hardware? You need to look at everything from the MCB board all the way to the hi-fi system. I have found that a socket on a ring main is very clearly better than a socket on a single cable from the MCB panel. And the wall socket has an effect too, I found that the SuperSocket sold by Russ Andrews is considerably better than the MK or Crabtree sockets I had fitted in our house. I suspect that the MCBs too have some effect [usually making things worse] so in the New Year I will investigate installing a 'better' MCB on the hi-fi system line. I took my own advice and installed [actually an electrician friend did all the work for me even though I am qualified to do so] a triple run of 2.5 mm sq twin and earth from a seperate MCB to a SuperSocket in the music room. [Details of this work are documented on another post on this Forum]. I use mains cables built by Andy Spencer and a self built mains silver wired distribution block, the silver wiring built by Andy. The effect on the sound is profound in my honest opinion and considering the relatively low cost of the work, an absolutely essential upgrade for every system. Basically what you get [when the mains is addressed] is a less compressed sound, a lot less strain and a more comfortable listen to music. Strangely compression makes the music more exciting, adding an unreal urgency to the sound. Initial listening using the new wiring felt a little underwhelming until I clicked just what was happening. As I still have the original 'single' wired socket, it was easy to swap back and forth to confirm my findings. The more you do with the mains cables, and you can't do any more than rewire from the MCB board to the system, the greater the effect. Andys work on the mains leads and distribution block show their worth on the single wired socket in my room but really blossom when plugged into the triple wired SuperSocket.

[tony]

You seem to have got great results Tom. In my case I was using cables to try and make an amp sound different to what it was. It took me a bit of time and discussion with some of the lads to figure out what I was doing. It had all started very successfully when I demoed some interconnects. I had bought a van den hul name to have something decent. Ivor lent me some cables he was selling (Heimdall, van den hul first ultimate and some dalkey island cables) The heimdall seemed to be magic and at that time I heard a distinctly more listenable sound.
I tinkered with speaker cables subsequently and got as far as trying heimdall speaker cables but I cant honestly answer if they offered a subtle improvement. I thought they did but nothing dramatic to part with lots of money.

When I decided to change tack and go for valves and quads I have lost all interested in experimenting with cables. I am just happy with the sound. Now I did add a sub and supertweeters but still have no desire to mess with cables. The only really dramatic difference I have heard was the Meitner dac that was brought over for a listen. I have swapped around interconnects all the time as I have moved stuff around as nothing is in a permanent position and really don't care too much which pair I am using. Do components (source/speaker or amp) have the greatest impact on what sound you get?

I do think the power regeneration could be worthwhile. Not expecting any dramatic change in sound but just protection and comfort.

Maybe in time I might end up doing the socket thing and experimenting with cables again. What I really wonder is it just because we like to tinker that drives a lot of this stuff. At the moment I have spent too much on components so my mind has no interest or inclination to try cables fuses whatever. In a few years time if I cannot afford to upgrade will I be back to the tinkering to get an improvement.

[DaveF]

EVERYTHING matters or affects the sound from your system.

With the upmost respect to you Rocker, the above statement is EVERYTHING that's wrong with audiophiles in my opinion. Not everything affects the sound from a hifi system and its the biggest source of placebo as they believe that anything will improve how a piece of electronics performs. This simply isnt true.
Now I can see how a dedicated mains ring etc may be beneficial to some equipment depending on their power supply, but the mere notion that a power cable will change how the electricity flows is completely implausible.

As for Russ Andrews products...........what is it about his supersocket that differs in performance from a normal one? I'd really like to see his test results from that one.

As for my own experience in this area, for the last 2 years or so I've been working with electronics that control extremely sensitive lasers. The laser is capable of detecting movements in the order of femto-metres... thats a million times smaller than nano. The laser is so sensitive that the electronics that drive it have to be designed with ultra low noise performance in mind or the design will loose accuracy and the laser will be affected. We dont do daft things like putting the power supply on isolation or try out different cables be it in the digital or analog sections. Why? Cause they will change nothing.

Peter Walker, Mr Quad himself, probably one of the most respected men in hifi, whose design in speakers hasn't been bettered today, has said of the indifference a magic power chord will make.

What a pity that the approach to hifi today isnt like how it was in the 50s, 60 and 70's. Good design based on solid engineering principles. Once the marketing people took over that was it.

[Rocker]

DaveF, when I used the word 'everything', I meant setup of equipment, room size, room furnishings, drapes, carpets/mats etc. All these things do affect the sound we hear. Simple actions like 'dressing cables' will have an effect, perhaps not one that announces itself immediately but over time you notice that the system sounds smoother and 'better' than it was. The mains supply is no different in my honest opinion. Get that part right and a lot of the jigsaw pieces fit together better.

Why a mains socket that is breathed upon by Russ Andrews 'works' better than the same socket you can buy in any electrical wholesaler is a question I cannot answer. I just does and for the price of a few pints of beer, it solves a problem most people do not know exists.

Audio and hi-fi is a subjective thing my friend. Measurements have been shown to have little or no correlation to what we actually hear from our systems. It seems that we are not measuring the things that actually matter sound wise!

You may recall a series of posts I wrote about my experiences with the Squeezebox Duet as a source of music for my system. If not, please read through it as I found [at the end] that more bass was apparent a day after the fitting of a new digital cable. So much bass energy was in the room that I had to use three Cereballs under the Squeezebox to manage this extra energy. Somebody might be able to explain the whys of this but I am happy with my solution even if the Cereballs cost more than the Squeezebox!

And as I have said before, listening to changes in sound brought by different cables etc. bores me to tears. I bought my system to listen to the music on the disk. The probability that my system is masking detail is of little concern to me [which smashes any audiophile credibility I might have had]. I am happy to be able to determine if the acoustic guitar is six string or twelve, if the drums are real or electronic or whatever. The music is all that matters and the electronics are simply the means to an end. Getting as much of the electronics out of the way as possible, simply frees up the music and allows me/you to get on with the listening.

[DaveF]

DaveF, when I used the word 'everything', I meant setup of equipment, room size, room furnishings, drapes, carpets/mats etc. All these things do affect the sound we hear.

Fair enough. I'd certainly agree with that.

Why a mains socket that is breathed upon by Russ Andrews 'works' better than the same socket you can buy in any electrical wholesaler is a question I cannot answer. I just does and for the price of a few pints of beer, it solves a problem most people do not know exists.

hmmm I dont find that satisfactory answer. :-) What problem is it that people arent aware of here?

Measurements have been shown to have little or no correlation to what we actually hear from our systems. It seems that we are not measuring the things that actually matter sound wise!

Its true that we cannot or thats its very difficult to put a measurement to what any individual hears. But electronic components beit an amp, a CDP, a piece of medical equipment etc dont make sound. They take in a electrical voltage/current, manipulate it according to the devices function, then output it or interact with a downstream component. The measurements here can be very very precise.
The sound comes from the speaker only, not the components behind it. If there is a genuine change in the sound from a speaker then something behind it has changed electrically. This can be measured. Its how electronics work. If everything is the same electrically then the 'changes' in sound are simply down to placebo, poor audio memory, mood etc.

[DaveF]

jaysus Simon.......look what you started!

[Diapason]

I really should know better.