Jazz - What's your bag, man?

[fergus]

I was also given a copy of this album at the same time as Sketches from Spain by the same person. Listening to this album was a different experience for me altogether. There is not as much playing from Davis on this album as on Sketches but that is neither here nor there and yes this is an “electric” album (possibly an early jazz fusion album?) but that fact was also taken out of the equation in the comparison of the two. This was a completely different and a much more enjoyable listening experience for me. What stands out for me on this album that was absent on “Sketches” is the quality of the musicianship throughout, the arrangements and the quality of the improvisation; all are in a completely different league on this album to my ears.

[Seán]

I know that I am no expert on Jazz; I fully acknowledge that. I also have heard very little of the playing of Miles Davis but I know of his pedigree. I was recently given a copy of this CD and it was not the first time that I had heard it. I know that this album comes with a very big reputation but I have to be brutally honest and admit that I just do not get it. I know that I am probably going to upset some people by posting this but this has to be one of the most unmusical albums that I have ever heard. I can hear the ability of Davis in patches throughout the album but overall I honestly think that the playing and the arrangements in particular are sub standard; I think that very little imagination went into this work for the most part. Track 5, “Solea” is the only one that I got anything out of. I actually dislike being negative and hesitated as to whether I should actually post this.

Hi Fergus, thanks for your critique, it's very interesting indeed, I am not in the least bit surprised by your dislike for these performances, but I am a wee bit surprised at the criticism of the calibre of the musicianship. The orchestra assembled by Gil Evans for these recordings consisted of high calibre Jazz musicians in the rhythm, trumpet and trombone sections, and musicians from Classical ensembles too in the woodwind and horn sections, perhaps your comments are directed at Davis rather than any particular aspects of the ensemble playiing? I'm not sure.

I fully accept your distaste for the Gil Evans arrangements, they do deviate greatly from the original score and given the size of the orchestra one might have expected something bigger and/or more elaborate. These recordings are basically a vehicle for Miles' playing, the entire arrangements are built around him: Miles Davis, rather than for a trumpet player per se. I have found that Gil Evans' arrangements are not to everyone's taste.

Down through the years, I have played this LP for several friends and acquaintences and, in particular, for those who are familiar with the Rodrigo Concerto and I have yet to find one who loves classical music and is familiar with this piece and who actually likes the Gil Evans and Miles Davis recordings, perhaps mcq will surprise us, who knows? When you were in my house I put the Concerto on for you and was pleasently surprised that you didn't instantly recoil in horror when you heard it, in fact, if memory serves me correctly you were intrigued with the Paul Chamber bass line in the First movement, obviously on subsequent listening sessions you have grown to dislike these performances.

Thanks for your honest and forthright comments Fergus, I enjoyed reading them but I do not share them. I do enjoy reading what one thinks of music and in particular why one might like or dislike a partcular performance, so well done. And finally, sure there's alway Duke Ellington.

[Fran]

Very interesting indeed Fergus. Always good to be honest!

I love both of those albums, and I love the flow of the music through both of them (kinda why I passed them on to you). Sketches in particular is one of my favourites of all time, but silent way is just sheer beauty to me. Don't feel bad that you don't like sketches - one mans meat and all that!!

What is interesting though is that I think you might be hearing both of them through "classical" ears - i.e. the mention of the arrangements etc. I never really noticed that at all!!! Shows my knowledge doesn't it!!? And you saying you don't know anything about jazz!


Anyway, I'm giving this a spin tonight:



Fran

[Fran]

Actually, something else that occurs to me after thinking a bit more.

I feel I have a confession to make - kinda like the lad in the ad that stands up and says "I don't know what a tracker mortgage is", well, I know feck all about jazz. I couldn't tell you who played on what, or what kind of sax coltrane played, or a whole host of other such details - but yet I own and listen to a lot of jazz. Now, blues, yes I can tell you much more info.... but jazz, nope. That Sonny Rollins album above is really the only one of his that I really like, I have a few others, but its the only one that I like or play regularly.


Fran

[Seán]

I was also given a copy of this album at the same time as Sketches from Spain by the same person. Listening to this album was a different experience for me altogether. There is not as much playing from Davis on this album as on Sketches but that is neither here nor there and yes this is an “electric” album (possibly an early jazz fusion album?) but that fact was also taken out of the equation in the comparison of the two.

Spot on Fergus, In a Silent Way was one of the first Jazz Fusion albums and led directly to Miles next album, the marvellous, Bitches Brew.

This was a completely different and a much more enjoyable listening experience for me. What stands out for me on this album that was absent on “Sketches” is the quality of the musicianship throughout, the arrangements and the quality of the improvisation; all are in a completely different league on this album to my ears.

The musicians on this date were some of the finest to have ever played Jazz. He had four future band leaders: Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea & Joe Zawinul on keyboards and John McLaughlin on guitar.

I think that it might be stretching it a bit far to refer to arrangements on this recording. The writing is mainly for the rhythm section and the soloists play over them. Miles did give directions to the musicians as to how he did not want it played and the musicans took their lead from his cryptic instructions. The band recorded more than two hours of music and producer Teo Macero & Davis edited the performances down to less than the 40 minutes. The result is this gorgeous CD. This was the first time that McLaughlin had played with Miles Davis, Zawinul was a guest, Corea, Holland, Williams and Shorter were the only regular members of his group.

Miles was particularly proud of In a Silent Way, which was rare, he was always very critical of his past work, I am glad you like it.

I think that it would be a real pity to write off Gil Evans as a composer and arranger on the strength of one recording albeit one held in such high esteen by very many people. I have several recordings of his and the only one I dislike is his tribute to Jimi Hendrix.

Thanks again for starting the discusssions.

[Seán]

Actually, something else that occurs to me after thinking a bit more.

I feel I have a confession to make - kinda like the lad in the ad that stands up and says "I don't know what a tracker mortgage is", well, I know feck all about jazz. I couldn't tell you who played on what, or what kind of sax coltrane played, or a whole host of other such details - but yet I own and listen to a lot of jazz. Now, blues, yes I can tell you much more info.... but jazz, nope. That Sonny Rollins album above is really the only one of his that I really like, I have a few others, but its the only one that I like or play regularly.


Fran

Fran, you might like this:

[Fran]

Thanks Sean, I'll watch out for that....

[Diapason]

Sketches of Spain is probably much better if you don't already know the Rodrigo! I hated it at first, but I warmed to it a *little* bit last time I listened to it. I don't have "in a silent way" so can't comment there, but I generally prefer Miles before the, eh, later stuff.

[Seán]

Sketches of Spain is probably much better if you don't already know the Rodrigo! I hated it at first, but I warmed to it a *little* bit last time I listened to it. I don't have "in a silent way" so can't comment there, but I generally prefer Miles before the, eh, later stuff.

That's what I would expect.

[Seán]

On the TT:



These performances were recorded in 1972, thirty years after the death of Jimmy Blanton. True to form Duke wrote a suite for piano and double bass for the occasion, this a very satifying album.