How to narrow down too many choices

[HiFiFan]

I am going to upgrade my pre-amp and CDP but am overwhelmed with options. Of course the biggest problem is I can only listen to a fraction of these in a controlled environment and even then not always with the same speakers that I have. I am considering going to the Rocky Mountain Audio Festival in October to focus on sources and pre-amps, but don’t know how successful I can be with that given the differences in power amps, speakers etc. I am not so much looking for suggestions on gear but looking for tips/tricks/approaches that could help with identifying key differences between the units even though they will be in different setups (perhaps asking the impossible).

Just FYI some of the options I am currently considering are

Pre-amplifiers
Shindo Masseto
Rogue Audio Hera II
Audio research LS27
Lamm LL2.1/L2 Ref
Ayon CD-5S (preamp with CDP)
Ayon Orbis
VAC Renaissance Mk.3

CDPs
Resolution Audio Cantata
Ayon CD-2S

[Claus]

I have never been shopping in this price bracket but if I was about to lay out this kind of money I would make trips to the UK to audition. If you are living in the States you probably have a better chance at finding some of these options at dealers within driving distance, making auditions easier. I have personally never been able to judge anything from a show, but that might just be the circumstances....
If you get a really dedicated dealer they should give you all they have home for audition. Again I don't know where you live so this might not be an option. If I was shopping at your level I would ring Kronos and ask them to let me try out the Ayon gear at home. I am pretty sure there would be no problem with this. But essentially you need expert advise and plenty of demoing to ensure matching of your equipment. I am sorry but I cannot recall what your using at present? Then at the end of the day you just have to take a chance and hope that what you got sounds good to your ears 6 months down the road.....

[fergus]

The one very important issue here is that of synergy of components. One can discuss all day the merits and demerits of various components but the all important factor especially when one gets to a particular level is how they will work together. Unfortunately that can only be heard and needs to be experienced within your own setup. Recent threads here will show how big a problem that can be, even with the best of equipment.

Best of luck with your search and let us know how you get on.

[DaveF]

Fergus has certainly hit the nail on the head there. The synergy of the components is all so important. The only way to truely evaluate is to hear them in your own place. I certainly love to be in a position to try out those Lamm amps!

As for the Resolution Audio Cantata, there was a thread a few months ago over on hifiwigwam comparing this player to the older Resolution Audio Opus 21 player. Most people were of the opinion that the Opus 21 was the more musical of the players. I have the Opus 21 myself and its a great player. Never heard the Cantata though.

[Diapason]

I'd love to go to the Rocky Mountain Audio Festival, I think it would really appeal to me. That said, I wouldn't expect to learn *anything* about specific components under show conditions, even that show. If I was going that far, I'd definitely want to pop in to Audio Federation, as I'd expect to learn a lot more there. Of course, they won't have all the items on your short-list, but I doubt anyone will have all of them.

I agree with all the comments about synergy, and I think it's even more important the higher up the hifi scale you go. It's counter-intuitive perhaps, but I've heard really expensive, highly regarded gear sound horrible in the wrong combinations. I'd give the usual advice really: take your time, listen to as much as you can, and don't be afraid to trust your ears rather than reviews or price tags.

Or you could just buy the Lamm and be done with it.
ETA: isn't the LR2 ref the one with the valve power supplies on a separate chassis? They look awesome!

[Andy S]

Forum member "leachimnosneb" has the Resolution Audio Cantata, he lives in Dun laoghaire, I am sure he woulld
let you have a listen if you wanted to hear it!

Regards.

Andy

[HiFiFan]

Thanks for the responses.
My system is really weird and has evolved over time for a combined 2 ch/5ch surround setup to the current incarnation which is 2 channel only but with remnants of the 5 channel days. It is basically the following
• Wilson Audio Sophia III speakers
• Resolution Audio Opus 21 CDP
• Arcam AV8 as pre-processor/pre-amp
• Acoustic Reality eAR 1001 mono blocks
• Purist Audi Design Aqueous and Venustas cabling and some of Andy S silver interconnects
• Power is all home made with custom filtering and Venhaus Audio and DH Labs AC cable, Wattgate plugs and Porter Ports

I currently have the RA Opus 21, have had it for about 9 years now and still really like it but since getting the Sophia’s about a year ago I know I can get more out of them. The Av8 is the weakest link by far and if I want to do serious listening I currently have to wire the Opus 21 directly to my power amps (which gets annoying have to wire/rewire back to the AV8).

Somebody told me, or I read somewhere, that the Cantata is supposed to be about a 15% improvement over the Opus 21. I’d to interested to hear what the current owners of Cantata thinks ("leachimnosneb” etc).

I know a chap through email exchanges that has Sophia IIIs, Shindo Maesto, Vac 70/70 (with 300B tubes) combination that he absolutely loves. That is what put the Shindo on my list.

Fergus, Disapason etc. I think you are correct and there will be no easy solution. Last year I went through a period of a few months trying different cables and found that some of the more expensive ones sounded awful in my system even though they had gotten great reviews.

Thanks for the reminder on Audio Federation, I had forgotten about them. We met them at the 2010 RMAF and they were really nice. They had a beautiful room running the top end Martin Coltrane speakers with an insane set of gear behind it, sound was just beautiful. I can’t recommend RMAF highly enough, very relaxed, vendors are very friendly, we listened to 5 or 6 tracks in some rooms from CDs we brought and often returned the next day and they were always accommodating.

My main problem is location. I am in the US but not within easy access of many dealers. I think my plan might be to narrow down a small set of dealers that collectively carry the majority of what I am interested in and try take it from there. It is probably going to be towards the end of the year before I can really do anything so gives me plenty of time.

On a side note and I am not trying to sell them here but I have a great set of Spendor BC1s that we regularly used before we got the Sophia’s. I used to have Focal Micro Utopia Bes and the Spendors were a nice change every so often, but with the Sophias we just don’t use them . Now they are up in the attic and I worry about the heat affecting them. Part of me thinks I should just sell them (though there would not be much money) but the other part wants to keep them for sentimental reasons. Any thoughts – is it stupid to keep them?

[Rocker]

Another pre-amp you might add to your list is the Music First Silver. This is a transformer/passive unit that to my ears does not do much damage to the music signal. I have the RA Opus 21 going straight to Classe Monoblocks, this is a sound that I like but if I were to go the computer hi-res route I would need a pre-amp. Last week I heard Ken Morelands computer hi-res system [which uses a Music First pre-amp] and it was awesome.

Best of luck with your researches.

[Fran]

You're making a significant investment here - so it probably is well worth your while waiting and going to RMAF and having a listen. While its not the same as having the new item in your own room, at the same time you can get a feel for what it might be like.

I'm a fan of valve preamps, so will be biased that way. The shindo gets very good reviews, but on the downside, it uses all vintage parts inside - so if it ever needs a service, the parts will be difficult to get (read: only from shindo). Jadis don't get much favour in the US, but I recently heard a DPL and it was very very good. So good I got my hands on the circuit and intend building it at some point!

There is one other route I would look at. A couple of the lads here have the airtight ATM2 - an integrated PP amp using KT88 valves and putting out enough juice to run your sophias. It does sound very good indeed.

As regards the CDP, I don't think I can recommend much to you. I've heard the cantata a few times and its very nice indeed - and lots of functionality too. If you're willing to give computer audio a go, you should maybe consider one of John Kenny's DACs -very good sound indeed as many here will testify. Computer audio is not for everyone though.

Good luck in the search and keep us posted!!

Fran

[Diapason]

That is indeed an interesting system. Very hard to know what to advise really, but have you ever tried running the CD player directly to the power amps and using the player's volume control? It's not a perfect test, of course, but I'd be interested to know what effect you get taking the Arcam out of the equation. I've run my system without a pre for quite some time now (Wadia player, so not quite the same thing) and while I sometimes wonder if I might be missing something, it works for me. It might instructive anyway, and give you a a better idea of the sound you need a pre to bring to the party.

One way or the other, I'd probably lean towards a valve pre with this setup, but I couldn't forego remote volume, which is something that some of the pres you've listed don't have.

Another option, possibly too pricey, is the Devialet I mentioned elsewhere. By all accounts that's a real giant-killer, and I've heard it sound very good in a few different settings, including with Wilsons (at a show!) It's a "different" kind of product, but it might be worth looking at.