Changing hifi sound (aka "Am I crazy?")

[Diapason]

I may have posted about this before, maybe I am just losing my marbles, but as time goes on I'm convinced this is a real, non-imagined problem:

Sometimes my hifi sounds great, and sometimes it sounds horrible.

Basically, it's been going on for some time that I'd really enjoy the sound for a few days, really get into it, and experience that whole "sitting up all night digging out old albums" thing. Then I'd go back and listen to something a day or two later and it would just sound hard-toned, thin, flat and 2-dimensional. I always put it down to changes in my mood rather than to actual changes in sonics, but after the last couple of weeks I'm really starting to wonder.

I posted a mere 12 days ago about the Primare I32, and to be honest I was quite restrained about much I was enjoying it, because by that point I was in my element. I also didn't bother including the whole story, but if you haven't already fallen asleep, I'll include it here now.

When I first connected the Primare up I thought yep, it's working, sounds clean, slightly hard-toned, nothing special. Now, "slightly hard-toned" is my system's default setting, and it's the issue I've been trying to solve for the last few years, so there was nothing new there and it certainly wasn't surprising from a Class D amp. I listened to it occasionally over the next few days and nothing really jumped out to change my first impression.

One evening I had the place to myself and I thought a bit of harmless anorak behaviour might be in order, so I measured the distance of speakers from walls, moved the right speaker about an inch or 2, and, on a whim, changed the algorithm on the Wadia from A to C. I had read somewhere that C is meant to give a slightly warmer sound, so why not give it a go. I did all this without listening to a note.

Well, that evening it sounded AWESOME! Honestly, I couldn't get enough, I couldn't believe the difference in quality. Disc after disc sounded incredible, bass was deep and full, soundstage was 3d, voices sounded realistic in the room, orchestral timbres were perfect, and all-told the whole thing was just so LIFELIKE. Goosebumps galore, hifi perfection, this is why you spent those ridiculous sums on high-end gear.

However even as I was listening and enjoying, the thought struck me "we've been here before". And we have. On many occasions in the past I've had that sense of hifi nirvana only to lose it a couple of days later. I even said as much to Hazel when she arrived home, and she agreed that she'd heard the same from me in the past. I had a final listen that evening where I tried to be as objective as I could. Hand on heart, I could discern no sense of harshness from the sound, and while you can always hear potential for improvement, I really thought it was fantastic.

Over the next few nights I experienced the same, night after night, CD after CD, I was having a whale of a time. That week I listened to the hifi more than I have done in the last year, that's no lie. It was around that time that I posted about the amp, I couldn't believe my luck finding such synergy in such an unlikely place, and for the first time in a LONG time I was enjoying listening to music at home again.

Still reading? Thank you! Bear with me...

The weekend before last I was away, so I turned the hifi off before we left. Normally it stays on all the time, but not when I'm away. Last week I didn't have much free time to listen, but in the occasional moments I did, I thought it had lost some of its magic. I turned the hifi off and on a few times over the week, but left it on again over the weekend without really listening. Finally, last night I had the place to myself, so I settled in for a session.

By now you will have guessed that it sounded awful.

The thing is, it didn't just sound awful, it was back to that hard-toned, 2 dimensional, thin sound that I've been fighting forever. I gave plenty of time, tried a variety of discs and none of them were especially enjoyable to listen to. Now I stress that everything seemed to be working on the face of it. There were sounds coming from all drivers on the speakers, Wadia algorithm was still set to C, all cables were tightly connected, volume was at the exact same setting as before etc. It just sounded flat, harsh, mid-fi, it gave me no pleasure to listen to, and in the end I decided to watch TV instead.

I'm tearing my hair out at this stage, because none of this makes sense to me. It could be psychological but to be honest the perceived differences are now so vast that I don't think so. As I said, I've experienced this in the past, but this time I'm really coming around to the idea that there might be something actually going on.

But what? What could be changing? Faulty component? Loose connection? Wadia software playing up? Speakers doing something weird? Could unstable electricity supply cause this? Atmospheric conditions? Seismic activity? What the hell is going on?

Seriously, help me out here before I'm wheeled away by men in white coats!

[cybot]

What you're experiencing Simon is too horrible to even think about and whether we'll admit it or not, we all go through something on the same lines as you from time to time...I'm not going to on at great lengths about my own experience suffice to say that for me simplicity and synchronicity is the key and that's not taking into account cables,mains, mind etc etc The desire to tinker with the system is always present because we're never happy until the system is just so...Sometimes the system is like a devil sitting in the corner licking it's lips and grinning from ear to ear watching us crumble at the slightest change in the sound. A hi fi fanatic friend of mine drove himself and me round the bend for nearly 10 years until he moved house about 8 years ago. To this day his beloved system is sitting wasting away in some corner waiting for the day to be plugged in again. Needless to say I haven't heard from him in nearly two years!

I had a situation last week where I swore I could hear crackling sounds coming from the right speaker but it was very inconsistent! Anyway one night I was sure so I swapped over the phono leads and the crackling was now coming from the left speaker. So it was between the tt and amps. Since it was late I decided to replace one of the phono valves and the crackling disappeared! However the next day the crackling returned!?!? I replaced the old valve and turned my attention to the tt and specifically the arm (I had been messing with it this few weeks) and sure enough I spotted from the corner of my little eye a slight hint that one of the arm leads around the pivot area was slightly frayed. Out came the arm and sure enough I was right! So with great difficulty I managed to repair it with a tiny run of solder. But the weekend was ruined for me because I could not,would not enjoy my system because of what happened! So being in the lucky position of having another tt and amp I listened to them instead! On the Monday I switched back to my troubled friends to listen to an Lp that arrived earlier and which I wasn't familiar with, sonically speaking and, lo and behold, the system was back to sounding brilliant again! Now I'm contemplating whipping out the arm cable and replacing it with new stuff!?!? How mad is that??? As I said above we are never happy and that red devil just gets bigger and bigger!

Your situation is a lot trickier than my own and I wish I could offer a fool proof answer! As you've already said something's not right. Have you any idea where the problem lies and how you could diagnose it? Surely the mains couldn't change the sound that much? Or could it? If it was me I'd just double check everything and leave the system permanently on for the next few days - assuming it's safe to do so! Resist the urge to listen until the weekend, at least. Anyway it's funny how the sound changed when you switched it off! Can you substitute other components similar to your own into the system and see how they get on....Best of luck anyway and do keep us in the loop, won't you....

[Ivor]

I recall Brian remarking that his Wadia took an absurd amount of time to 'warm up' if it was switched off even for the shortest periods. If I remember correctly he leaves it on even when he goes on holiday.

[Fran]

Yes, a WEEK was the recommended time iirc.

Leave the cdp on all the time and put it on repeat for a few hours the first few nights.

To echo what cybot said - we all experience this kind of crap now and again - the thing is to first of all definitely say that it's not psychosomatic and something really going on with the system. The only way is to have 2 or 3 snippets burnt on a cd and be 100% familiar with them. Repeated comparisons with these can help point the way and more importantly prevent you spending if you don't need to.

Not much help i know!

Fran

[DaveF]

I have the same thing with my own Wadia. It takes nearly a week to warm up before it sounds its best. As someone with an electronics background, it makes no sense to me but I've experienced it several times now whenever I've had to power it off so I can't ignore it.

Simon, I'll admit that I find it odd that despite the great system you have, you dont seem to listen to music often or for extended periods or at least not like you used to. Perhaps you just need to find your music mojo again....... or is it pointing to something more fundamentally 'wrong' with your system?
(You could add a turntable! ;-) No other piece of hifi equipment has given me so much enjoyment. I'd choose it over the Wadia in a heartbeat!)

For me, I find that my mood strongly dictates just how involving the music will be when I sit down for a listening session. I do at times just turn the music off after half an hour cos I just cant be arsed listening.

[jkeny]

Yes, very interesting posts. I can't say my system is stable enough for long enough to be able to definitively identify this symptom. I'm not sure that it's "audio nervosa" as was said but is really a genuine difference in the sound. So is this repeatable with the Wadia?

Here's a possible idea - can you record both of the same audio being played when your system sounds good & when it sounds bad & send this to others for their views? It may require a very good recording device to capture the difference but I'm just floating this idea. What do people think?

[Fran]

A decent recorder could be a big help. I have a zoom H2 that I use for camera work.... but is handy for some things like this too.

Download and have a listen to the 2 snippets below and see if you can hear a difference between the 2. Both are a bit from Van Morrison at the opera house in belfast recorded from vinyl during the development of a phonostage. Live recording with lots going on, percussion, hand clapping etc etc. I thought the difference was subtle enough, but the recorder was good enough to pick it up. You might need to burn these to a CD....

New track:

https://rapidshare.com/files/2358386887 ... _track.rar

Old track:

https://rapidshare.com/files/3868123493 ... _track.rar


Si, I think the first thing up is to leave the CDP on all the time and see over the course of a month or so if there is any difference.


Fran

[jkeny]

Jeez, Fran, even listening through in-ear headphones playing it through PurePlayer from a Windows 7 SP1 laptop, the difference is stunning. The older track is dirty in comparison to the new - is it level matched as it appears louder (but this is often the way with certain kinds of distortion). Now tell us the circumstances of each recording or do when it is appropriate. Maybe you should rename the tracks to avoid the obvious psychological bias in the naming or the double blind testing fundamentalists (that we know & love on another forum) will get upset :)

[Diapason]

Gentlemen, thank you for all your responses. There's lots of food for thought here, and I haven't the time to respond now. Be back later!

[Claus]

I take it you don't have electric heaters, pc or other "noisy" equipment on timer or similar. I had to disconnect an electrical radiator in our bedroom once to get my system to play nice.... :D

But the whole story is sooo familiar. I have the same happen to my guitar amp ever so often. I found out my noise exposure in work (2nd class teacher) had a big influence on what I heard....

Great post! Cheers,
Claus