Tír Na HiFi

So I've bought this:
What you're looking at here is a 3 manual and pedal console that will be used to build a digital organ using software called Hauptwerk. I have bought nearly all the associated "bits" as part of the deal (midi interfaces, active speakers that will do for the time being, cables) but what I need to finish the job is a computer.

Now, the Hauptwerk software has some more serious than expected demands. Basically organs all over the world are sampled, often at 24/96 and often in multi-channel, and when you load an organ into the program there's a sample for every pipe, and more besides, loaded into RAM. As such, for the bigger instruments you need really chunky amounts of RAM (think 96 gig or even more if possible) and "enough" processing power to make sure everything runs smoothly, with the lowest lag possible, as you can imagine that feeling connected to the instrument and action is essential. What you don't need is anything other than very basic graphics. There may be some touchscreen controllers added at a later point, but we're a long way from gaming PC requirements here.

The conventional wisdom on the Hauptwerk groups is to buy a Mac, as people seem to struggle to get Windows to play nicely (sound lag, sound crackling, Windows hogging resources, Windows updating and screwing everything up, etc.) Thing is, I've never really used Macs and I don't know much about them. I'm also seriously put off by the pricing! I'm more comfortable with PCs and might be happier in that space. However, this is borne out of ignorance primarily.

I feel like the overlap to building a high end audio PC must be reasonably large (maybe without the massive RAM requirement) so perhaps somebody here might have some thoughts or advice. Should I pay up and go Mac, or try to build something more bespoke on the PC side? How would I even do that if so? I've some technical IT knowledge but I've never brandished a soldering iron in anger. Help me Obi Wan...

Congratulations on taking on this ambitious project - you had hinted at it here a while ago.

I would share your reluctance to buy a (shudder) Mac, but I have nothing useful to contribute, I fear! I feel sure it must be possible with Windows, but if there's an easy well-travelled route the Apple way, I'd be tempted to hold my nose and go with that.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

I think it mostly depends of the audio software that will be installed there - some of them works better on Mac, some on Windows. Check where is Hauptwerk supported better, and see if issues are from Hauptwerk itself, or audio drivers.
Argument that PC can have sound lag, crackling, etc, are from bad ASIO audio drivers, has usually nothing to do with Windows.
So maybe Hauptwerk on Windows with good quality DAC/ASIO drivers can works just fine. There are many Windows DAW workstations outthere...

Is there any way you could borrow a gaming PC from someone you know to try it out?

I know most gamers probably want their PC to err, game on daily, but they also might be happy to see how something like that might work.

Building the PC is easy, it kinda all goes together like lego, but you have to make sure all the pieces are from the one set to stretch the analogy. Make sure the motherboard is compatible with ram and CPU etc. I know one thing - you'll get a hell of a lot of PC for the price of a mac. From my ordinary browsing around, the impression I get is that macs aren't what they once were.

There are plenty of places who will build a custom PC for you if you don't want to take it on - maxburns in tallaght is one that springs to mind.

Thanks all for your thoughts. I'm going to pick up the console tomorrow, and when I have it home I will probably at least try to set up a bog-standard version using an old laptop. I'm still leaning more towards PC than Mac, because I really think that any problems I might encounter should be solvable. I may indeed use that custom build place you mentioned, Fran, once I know what I want.

I actually don't think I know any gamers with lavish PCs, so I don't really have anyone to borrow from in this case. Still, I'll get there in the end.

Simon I showed this to Aidan my son. He is into music production and is a bit of a whizz on komputers and programming. He was intrigued by it. If you want to chat with him outside this thread or chat on this thread let me know and I will either get him to join tirna or email or whatsapp you.

BTW on a secondary subject you might have another chance at that gold blingy integrated amp you drooled over in your previous hifi life :)

Diapason wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:56 pm ..... I'm still leaning more towards PC than Mac...

and you should... it's a long time since MAC was the better software and it was always more expensive. I did have a MAC (which was an old one at the time) for typesetting because printers (the industry, not the cheap machines!) and others used a standard at the time. It was reliable but very very slow.

I used Apple Mac's from the very early days of typesetting right up until 2016. Never had an issue with them program-wise or in reliability terms. Never found them sluggish when working. Still have my Apple Mac G5 Tower from 2003 and it still works. I don't use it anymore, but just found it hard to part with it because it served me so well!

Well the organ made it from Athlone to Dun Laoghaire on Saturday. I haven't actually attached it up to anything yet, but it looks good! Early testing of the pistons and stops (as in, pushing the pistons to try to physically move the stops) suggests that this might be more of a "project" than I first thought. We'll see how that goes. Still, as long as the keyboards send suitable midi outputs, we should be good to go. That's the next stage, testing whether it works with a sample version of the software. I think you can still get a trial/sample for free, but I'll look into that. You'd think I'd be a bit more organised, but apparently not.

I've decided I'm definitely going PC rather than Mac. I'm just more comfortable in the space, and having spoken to somebody last night who runs a similar system, I'm already more confident that any problems can be sorted. That said, it seems clear I need to turn off virtually everything that Windows might try to do in the background, so that once again feels like the discussions we used to have here about audiophile PCs. In fact, it seems the licensing iLok dongle is sufficiently flaky that turning off auto DST adjustment is a good idea. We're not at the frontier of computing here.

Tony I'd be delighted to chat to Aidan about it, especially if he knows anything about getting Midi to play nice! Maybe when I'm a bit further along the curve we'll be able to have a sensible conversation, but no problem if he wants to send me a WhatsApp or email or the like. I'm afraid I'm not on Tik Tok, so that's out... Oh, and stop distracting me with gold bling. That budget is now non-existent!

That's very impressive Simon and quite the project to take on. Do you have a chimney stack in the house that could be converted to a 32ft bombard? Just sayin...
Anyway, if you need any advice on the PC building part do let me know as I've built several high end PC's over the years. They are pretty easy to be honest but can be daunting first time.