Market Research

[jkeny]

Looking for some help, guys.
I would welcome suggestions for a new or modified enclosure for my Ciunas DAC
Some of you already know what this looks like but here's a pic for those that don't.


It's current dimensions are LXHXW 120X78X43mm

Some thoughts - I'll probably go for a bigger enclosure & I considered some nice wooden end panels.
I don't particularly like the all aluminium boxes that are the usual offerings but also don't want to get into big machining expenses for a bling-bling box.
Thinking of trying to find a made in Ireland feel to it, maybe something like this using a native Irish wood - birch, beech, yew, cherry.....?


Any suggestions or thoughts would be welcome

[nige2000]

Sometimes i wonder
for sales is the box aesthetics more important than the sound quality of its contents?
is it a first impressions last sort of thing?

which would you/wife prefer sitting on the shelf





even the packaging allows for a ceremonial unboxing



Even companies like apple put a lot of effort into design and packaging, i really think it has served them well

reminds me about a few years ago when i got a new smart phone
my friends girlfriend says "oh you got a new phone"
"yep" i replied "samsung s2 16gb storage 1gb ram wifi hotspot etc etc "
then the statement came "Ah But its not an Iphone"
i knew that no amount of explanation was going to convince that the s2 was better

i think a lot of this is like women's obsession with shoes
1: must be pretty
2: must be in fashion
3: must be expensive "no pain no gain", expensive stuff is always cherished more
4: comfort/sq can it be worn for a few hours without going to hospital

price to weight ratio, guys seem to like stuff that weighs heavy, needs two hands to lift, put your back out sort of thing

id like to think id have some immunity to such things, but its always there maybe only subconsciously

these Apple and Devialet type products will always be destination type equipment rather than a pitt stop on the way

i think its quite a shame that the ciunas punching well above its price bracket and fit to tango with dacs 4/5 times its cost and
isnt making some guys dac shortlist because of ascetics

i know many will disagree with me
and would say they would buy cuinas in a cardboard box if it was a bit cheaper

[tony]

Funny I am considering a box for a power supply I hope comes off shortly and wooden front was a choice. Your idea John is virtually identical to what
I am thinking. It needs some brushed steel in there somewhere also. BTW the engineering shop linked in the brass thread make up aluminum profiles from sheets
There prices seem reasonable but not sure how they compare with off the shelf items.
Brass and copper worth considering also. You could always consider a more bespoke version and the usual aluminum can to cater for Nigel and even a cardboard box version!

[Modest]

Would be lovely if you stick your brand name on your DAC's ...the look is not that important, at least you want to pull bigger market on it :)

[nige2000]

Funny I am considering a box for a power supply I hope comes off shortly and wooden front was a choice. Your idea John is virtually identical to what
I am thinking. It needs some brushed steel in there somewhere also. BTW the engineering shop linked in the brass thread make up aluminum profiles from sheets
There prices seem reasonable but not sure how they compare with off the shelf items.
Brass and copper worth considering also. You could always consider a more bespoke version and the usual aluminum can to cater for Nigel and even a cardboard box version!

The sky is the limit when it would come to custom fancy cases
I would say it would be difficult to end up costing 1 -300 euro for something particularly nice
And the extra cost would have to be absorbed by the market
Whether there would be more customers than before it would be hard to know
Two product lines might solve but the fancy one needs to be better sounding too
To diffentiate

[jkeny]

Thanks, Nige
I'm of the same opinion as you - I prefer form to follow function but I also appreciate good design.
However good design requires creativity & money.
The design genius, Jonathan Ive is a large part of Apple's success as a fashion device & to some extent has raised the bar for other product manufacturers because the man in the high street uses his iphone styling & finish as the common measure for product design.

I have made no real effort in the Ciunas or previous boxes towards considering fashion design aspects - form simply followed function - I don't really consider the fashion audio business although I do look at the likes of the Devialet & appreciate it's design. I'm aware that the looks can put people off but hoped that once heard, the sound would overcome this (once the looks were bearably neutral). I know it's size allowed me to get away with this, to some extent, as it was small enough to be hidden behind other equipment so it's aesthetics didn't matter so much. In a way this might be considered a WAV factor i.e it is small enough to be hidden :)

So now I'm looking at maybe coming out of the closet with a nod towards addressing some of these aspects & thinking about an enclosure facelift or redesign of the package.

Any thoughts?

[jkeny]

Ah, I see a number of posts while I was writing my post - thanks guys - much appreciate your input.

Thanks, Tony - I'll have a look at the engineering shop linked to in the brass thread - that's the sort of info I need. Does anybody have any other engineering shops I should try? Maybe ones that specialise in this sort of area?

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines - splitting it into two product lines - the current one & one with better enclosure, more functionality & possibly better sound?

Yes, modest, I have a brand logo (does this work?). Also need to consider the best way to incorporate it onto the enclosure

[Ken Moreland]

Good discussion. I'd have to agree with Modest that the logo or name is necessary to distinguish the maker and model . In addition some info on input voltage etc would be helpful. On a DAC the only useful feedback is the input sample rate so something using LED's or FIP might be worthwhile. Chord use coloured LEDs for all this kind of info and while it is useful to know the sample rate , input selection, volume level, charging status , crossfeed level etc it's probably over the top. On the other hand they didn't bother with any switch labelling so the user has to refer to the simple manual.
If your new DAC is not intended to be portable then audiophiles being only human, like something looking substantial to occupy a shelf so those wooden cheeked boxes look good and, in honour of Tony ,maybe a few brass fittings.

[jkeny]

Good points, Ken, thanks
Agree on logo & input/output identifiers. I know what LED is but what's FIP?

Yes, I'm wondering about this divide - portable Vs fixed. How many people actually use something as big as the Hugo or Ciunas as a portable device?
I'm not even so sure about the Pono's ergonomics regarding portability.
So are these devices more about sound rather than portability?

I'm trying to get inside the mind of the people who buy audio devices to try to tease out their purchasing criteria, so thanks for all the comments & keep them coming.
I'm wondering what are the weighting of factors that influence a purchasing decision (leaving aside size of company, reliability, etc)? (Pity we can't run polls on this forum):
- price
- sound
- size
- visible indicators
- visual appeal
- others

[Ken Moreland]

FIP is Fluorescent Indicator Panel, the sort of display you might see on a CD player indicating track number and time etc. I looked up Wikipedia and they hadn't heard of it either.

Hugo is portable in that it's a headphone amp as well so off you go on your longhaul flight with your laptop/headphones, but personally I wouldn't be bothered. I think portability is more important to youngsters and they aren't much interested in music quality so you're targetting the old goat market. Polished wood, heavy weight, gold connectors ,relatively large size and maybe a brass logo.

KM