Tír Na HiFi

As Win Server Core 2012 and Audiophile Optimiser hit the Danish forum we got the "can open worms everywhere" debate. I am looking for some possible explanations (if they are out there) as to why we hear the changes and improvements with cleaner power, different storage and hard drives and better cables etc. all working in the digital domain (i.e. bits) that according to these people can only be there or not there.

Links and cut n' paste will do just fine. So will the "I hear a difference, therefore there is a difference" argument of course. ;)
Thanks guys!

Been there done that Claus. It is just a head wrecker. The people who demand the most proof normally operate with a system that comprises €50 dac,tin can speakers and no real interest in hifi. If you produced 100% verifiable proof from all the Gods that exist they would then either say it is not enough or else Ok but I wouldn't be bothered trying it anyway. If you feel the need like I did to spread the gospel just don't answer their questions or advise them that your electricity bill dropped when you used core or you mysteriously got money in your bank account. On no account suggest that it did anything to improve your stereo. It is like flies around a smelly substance if you dare think or vaguely utter that.

Bits are bits and the method of transport used to move data has no affect on end sound quality. This is something that's proven science and so the bits are bits brigade are in fact quite correct.

maxflinn wrote:Bits are bits and the method of transport used to move data has no affect on end sound quality. This is something that's proven science and so the bits are bits brigade are in fact quite correct.

Seriously, if you've just come here to act the troll you might as well pack your bags now. Mind you don't fall off the edge of the world on your way home...

If disagreeing with somebody by stating a scientifically backed position is trolling then don't worry, I'm off.

maxflinn wrote:If disagreeing with somebody by stating a scientifically backed position is trolling then don't worry, I'm off.

This forum (in another form) had this "debate" about ten years ago. If you can't measure the difference then you're not measuring correctly. To be honest all you need are working ears connected to a functioning brain and you'll hear the difference. It might make you feel superior to use words like "scientific" but it doesn't prove anything.
If you just want to bring that tired old line to the forum don't bother... we've moved on considerably around here.

Jaysus they are.... EVERYWHERE...!
Sorry to bring it up, I of course never intended this to be a thread for the actual debate. I was merely wondering about the theory behind it. I also heard John talk about developing a way to measure some of these things, but I don't know how far he has come with that project?

Claus wrote:Jaysus they are.... EVERYWHERE...!
Sorry to bring it up, I of course never intended this to be a thread for the actual debate. I was merely wondering about the theory behind it. I also heard John talk about developing a way to measure some of these things, but I don't know how far he has come with that project?

Fundamentalists.

Claus you can get a bit of practice. Maxyflinn is a specialist on PFM on me bits are bits. He can drag a thread through quicksand till it sinks all the way to hell. He is the best so if you want some practice he is very much up to the task.

Welcome aboard Mr Flynn. On this site if you really feel that strongly about your view you will have to come and meet the lads to explain your scientific evidence. You will also be asked to have a listen to various sources to allow you see what reality is. If you come and don't hear anything and are still married to your point of view I would applaud you because at least it shows that you are not just punching away on the keys in Waterford glass land. You would at least be seen to have a genuine interest and passion for music hifi and talking blarney in the flesh. Pm me if you would like to arrange a meet. Really some great guys. Some are very scientific educated lads working in electronics so would be well able to discuss your concerns/views on digital audio. Some have really great TT systems and there are some magic CDP's floating around also.

Look forward to hearing from you. TBH it would be interesting to have a person who doesn't believe that any changes in the digital area affect sound listening to CA systems. It strikes a balance and it is always nice to have somebody who feels that it can have no effect listening. I realise that if you have an open group of people disposed to CA there can be a perception or risk of herd mentality regardless of how objective we believe we are applying ourselves. The caveat though a lot of the CA people here are TT heads also so they see things from both sides of the fence and they can identify when a CA system is improved.

Despite the initial antagonistic post maxflinn - you are indeed welcome here.

Let me state though right now for the record that revolving arguments and any kind of descent will incur fairly savage moderation. That applies to whoever starts it - and whoever carries it on either.

Just sayin' right?


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On a further note, the approach here has always been more open minded than elsewhere. The thought process has always been "I think I hear a difference, I wonder what could be causing that. Could I do something to further it, replicate it elsewhere and perhsps one day prove it conclusively. Until then, I am willing to trust what I personally experience, I will keep an open mind, but no so open that everything falls out of it".

Last bit quoting Carl Sagan.

So, do we have all the answers? NO.
Are we willing to ask the questions? YES
Are we willing to experiment and try stuff? YES.

This in my view is a positive, constructive approach, even if it means the occasional blind alley. It is exactly the opposite of what I have seen many, many many times on fora elsewhere.


Fran