Tír Na HiFi

I don't just mean the stereotypical "digital" cliché, why does so much high-end equipment sound forward, hard-toned, even harsh? I've been reading around a lot of blogs and hifi sites recently, and we're all looking for the same thing -- open, liquid, unforced mid-range and treble -- but it's not the way the vast majority of components seem to sound. My experience, DaveF's experience, much equipment at the recent show, much discussion online, all point to the same issue.

What's going on? Is it that we're just more sensitive to problems in that frequency range? Is it that rooms are too reflective in that range? Is it purposely done by manufacturers as a substitute for "clarity"? Is it just really really difficult for manufacturers to get it right?

Diapason wrote:Is it purposely done by manufacturers as a substitute for "clarity"?

I would say thats its more along these lines. Perhaps by adding a bit of sparkle or brightness to the sound it would make their component stand out more at a show or give the impression of extra detail being there on an initial listen. But take the said component home and try to live with it and soon it becomes overbearing. That said, I think it only applies to some manufacturers.

Of course there are a lot of other variables here like synergy being critical and how the system interacts with the room.

I remember at the Cloney show recently that many here remarked at how uninvolving the Meridian system was but the Rocker thought it was a very musical system with a very unforced sound. It make me think how the system might sound if I got it home and listened to it under normal conditions. I might even like it then.
There are a core of members over on the Hifiwigwam forum who swear by Meridian systems because they have an unforced sound.

I’d agree with the notion that manufacturers seem to design products which appeal in a showroom but you couldn’t live with at home. While this used to be limited to mainstream speaker and CD player brands I’ve found it applies to a lot of the big name high end marques as well. That said, if we look at just high end consumers we’re probably to blame for much of the harshness. Assuming many other users are, like myself, chasing minute detail and resolution we also have to accept that unless we get the synergy just right what we end up with is a clutter of detail. Obviously clutter equals harshness. I know, I’ve been there!
I suppose it’s possible to get away with one “harsh” component but then we’re trying to tame that with a soft one. I really don’t like that approach. There are enough compromises in HiFi without adding unnecessary ones. The smallest detail must have space around it in order for it to be heard clearly otherwise it will overlap and/or clash with all the other sounds we’re hearing at the same time. I’ve been chasing more detail without clutter for years (while also trying to retain broad frequency response and no sibilance!) and have only recently found the balance. Oddly enough, the icing on the cake was a recent upgrade to my speaker cable.

I'd agree with a lot of that, Ivor. I've certainly been chasing a similar sound for years (albeit on a different path) and it's hard to get everything right. Congrats on the new speaker cable icing!

and we're all looking for the same thing --open, liquid, unforced mid-range and treble -

I suspect part of the problem is that it ain't that easy to achieve this! Also, many designers work by the numbers to the exclusion of everything else - cutting their options. And despite what you say, this does predominantly occur in cd players.



Fran

Fran wrote:And despite what you say, this does predominantly occur in cd players.

Not *necessarily* denying that, just didn't want to turn it into a digital-bashing thread!

Diapason wrote:

Fran wrote:And despite what you say, this does predominantly occur in cd players.

Not *necessarily* denying that, just didn't want to turn it into a digital-bashing thread!

you'd have no problem turning it into a vinyl bashing thread wud ya.....eh eh? ;-)

LOL, the minority view and all that!

Of course, it was your tt thread that got me thinking. :P

I found it much harder to get a good sound from the TT than the CD player.... but BOY when I did! ;)

Vinyl has its own different problems - mostly alignment issues. Generally the higher end gear does more complex passages and detail much better, so the lower end is more forgiving - sins of omission etc.

Fran