Tír Na HiFi

Symphony No. 5 from this set....





This recording has long been my favourite version of this work. It was recorded in the Jesus-Christus-Kirche in 1964 for the Deutsche Grammophon label. The “presence” of the music, based on the intensity of the performance and the recording is, for me, wonderful. The pacing throughout is perfect. The clarity of tone and texture really makes the performance speak and the quality of the playing really comes through in this recording.

The opening to this version is beautiful and the first movement builds up some wonderful tension in those tremulous strings and the brass section really bites. The woodwinds are beautifully mellow and that horn theme simply shines. The second part of the first movement, which is given a separate track number on this recording, steadily builds from the very beginning to a wonderful conclusion with lovely brass.
The second movement is richly textured and beautifully paced. The music really breathes and there is a rich interplay between strings and woodwinds while the rich bass line firmly anchors it.
The opening of the final movement is exciting and that horn theme when it enters is, I think, one of the finest that I have heard; it is my measure for all others. Once again the music is beautifully paced and the conclusion is a rich fanfare of blazing brass prior to those culminating hammer blow chords which have their own individual, quicker, timing than usual.

Symphony No. 5 from this CD....





This recording was made in the Philharmonie in 1976 for EMI. I think that, in itself, this is a fine version but it lacks some of the overall presence and intensity of the DG version. The openings of the first and final movements and the conclusion of each of the three movements are very fine but something is lacking in between; it is not a lot but it is perceptible. The build up to each conclusion is not as intense as the older DG version. The pacing does not quite seem the same as the older version but the EMI version is only 30 seconds longer than the EMI version; perhaps it is simply a question of lack of intensity? This lack of intensity is nowhere better demonstrated than in the horn theme in the final movement; it simply cannot compare with the earlier version. This does not make it a bad recording, it is not. It is simply different but not as epic and the earlier version. The earlier DG version is definitely the one to have!

The thread is nice but it did not really raised the way I envisioned it in the first place. I take full blame for it and for not making it clear what I was hoping for.

Matt: I would be interested to know what your original concept for the thread was and therefore why you are apparently somewhat disappointed with the way that it has turned out. Just beacuse the month is nearly over does not mean that the thread has to finish. We can still continue the thread in whatever direction that you want to go for as long as you like. The music is so wonderful I certainly would not mind listening to it again and again and exploring it more! There is always something to learn from such wonderful music as this.

^^ Don't give up Matt. As Fergus suggests we still have some time this month if you want to explore the music further with us...

fergus wrote:

The thread is nice but it did not really raised the way I envisioned it in the first place. I take full blame for it and for not making it clear what I was hoping for.

Matt: I would be interested to know what your original concept for the thread was and therefore why you are apparently somewhat disappointed with the way that it has turned out. Just beacuse the month is nearly over does not mean that the thread has to finish. We can still continue the thread in whatever direction that you want to go for as long as you like. The music is so wonderful I certainly would not mind listening to it again and again and exploring it more! There is always something to learn from such wonderful music as this.

Hey Fergus,

I thought that this thread (and the listening projects) would be like a book club where people review a book and express themselves about it. That is kinda how I started the whole thing but quickly realized that it was difficult to do so. I really thought that I could find lots of infos on that piece and had high hopes with the books that I found. I wanted tell a lot of infos of the pieces to help people who are listening to that piece for the first few times and help the veteran with that piece like myself to hear the work with new years. I just don't feel like I have done that as much as I would have wanted and the books did not really say much when it came to it. That been said, it is probably me who is too hard of myself.

I appreciate the reviews of recordings and I am sure that they are helpful for some but I feel that the thread is becoming just that. A thread about recordings. But I totally understand why because it is a lot easier to talk about a particular recording than a piece as a whole. I know that it is important for most of you but I am personally happy with just 1 or 2 recordings of a piece and I honestly don't find many differences between recordings (at this point in my career with classical music :) ).

Matt.

I think the beauty of a thread like this is that it can move in several ways at the same time and still be really interesting and useful. Coming to the work 'cold' makes it difficult for me to sensibly comment, especially since I have no touchstones to refer to (I'm basically new to Sibelius), but I still hope to say a bit more before the month is out. I think this piece is quite difficult to illuminate because even the musicologists don't seem to be able to agree on the structure. However, I find it very interesting to listen to music that stands at the interface between romanticism and modernism.

Hey, the thread has introduced me to some great music, so don't be too hard on yourself Matt.

Sorry guys, I have no Sibleius CDs in my collection and there were none in a couple of shops in Dublin a few weeks ago. Must be this threads fault! So reluctantly, I have to pass on this months choice.

Rocker wrote:Sorry guys, I have no Sibleius CDs in my collection and there were none in a couple of shops in Dublin a few weeks ago. Must be this threads fault! So reluctantly, I have to pass on this months choice.

Hi Tom, Tower Records should have a small collection in their Classical Music department. They probably have the Sanderling/BSO cycle in their Brilliant Classics section also.

ravel30 wrote: I appreciate the reviews of recordings and I am sure that they are helpful for some but I feel that the thread is becoming just that. A thread about recordings. But I totally understand why because it is a lot easier to talk about a particular recording than a piece as a whole. I know that it is important for most of you but I am personally happy with just 1 or 2 recordings of a piece and I honestly don't find many differences between recordings (at this point in my career with classical music :) ).

Matt.

I hope you don't mind me responding to post intended for Fergus Matt...

The truth is, for me, that I am not comfortable commenting on music in detail because I am not musical. Therefore some of the areas this thread could have delved into would have alienated me. But, we are all different and, in this instance, there is no right or wrong (I feel). The history of the piece was dealt with by you and that was enough for me.

I am a listener first and foremost (the spectator often sees so much more of the game, as they say). I like both the music in itself and the intepretation as an offshoot of my appreciation. It's very interesting to me - and perhaps too Fergus - that I can access multiple perspectives of pieces that I enjoy. For example I love comparing, say, a Finnish to a British recording; a recording can help to highlight areas that others neglect. Of course, often two interpretations are so similar that owning both is redundant - but that could be said to be one of the risks of collecting.

I wouldn't worry that the post didn't go in the direction that you intended - although I understand this might be frustrating for you. Posting on boards like this is by and large a democratic process and the participants chose that this is the way it should go. I know that I'll have no better luck when my turn comes I assure you Matt....

ravel30 wrote: Hey Fergus,

I thought that this thread (and the listening projects) would be like a book club where people review a book and express themselves about it. That is kinda how I started the whole thing but quickly realized that it was difficult to do so. I really thought that I could find lots of infos on that piece and had high hopes with the books that I found. I wanted tell a lot of infos of the pieces to help people who are listening to that piece for the first few times and help the veteran with that piece like myself to hear the work with new years. I just don't feel like I have done that as much as I would have wanted and the books did not really say much when it came to it. That been said, it is probably me who is too hard of myself.

I appreciate the reviews of recordings and I am sure that they are helpful for some but I feel that the thread is becoming just that. A thread about recordings. But I totally understand why because it is a lot easier to talk about a particular recording than a piece as a whole. I know that it is important for most of you but I am personally happy with just 1 or 2 recordings of a piece and I honestly don't find many differences between recordings (at this point in my career with classical music :) ).

Matt.

Matt, I think that you are indeed being too hard on yourself! I also say this with the greatest of respect Matt that I think that you are being over optimistic and unfair on yourself if you believe that you can come to a work like the Sibelius symphony No. 5, read a couple of books and from that secure a good understanding of such a complex work that operates on many emotional and intellectual levels.

We all struggle to understand the complexities of the music just like you but some of us have come to understand them a little bit more with years of listening and reading. Unlike CMG there are no professionally trained musicians, composers or conductors here whose wisdom we can call upon and to the best of my knowledge the only person who has any formal training is Simon (Diapason). Therefore we do not have the ability, training or vocabulary to formally analyse, dissect and sum up a work as complex as Sibelius 5 or to attempt to help you to do so either my friend, so you certainly should not beat yourself up because you feel that you cannot do so either. I also believe that if someone attempted to analyse a work in such a way they would kill it and bore people.

My approach, with my limited knowledge, is to try, by comparing different recordings, to highlight certain important or stand out sections and to try to demonstrate how different conductors interpret these particular sections. This can be a practical example of how I and many other listeners at our level of expertise analyse works such as this; we learn by listening and comparing as many of us will have the same versions of a particular work.

Many of us know that to understand the beauties and complexities of Early Music one has to have a grasp of or at least an “ear” for modes (not scales) and an appreciation of dissonant harmonies and their effects. Similarly, one needs to have an understanding of the strict architecture, or form, of the Classical symphony to fully appreciate its order, sense of movement and ultimate arrival at its predetermined goal. Likewise we also know that Romantic composers, although loosely using classical form, strove to impose the “personal” as opposed to the “aesthetic” of classicism as their primary means of expression and we also know that the atonal movement went in its own direction in an effort to get their own points of view across. My point here is that any such technical discussions would probably be lost on most people and would also probably alienate them. Perhaps I am wrong and I certainly would love to hear from those who would feel differently.

Far from being condescending Matt I am attempting to illustrate to you that what you seek is perhaps not that easy to achieve. However I would also try to encourage you in whatever way that I can my friend.

Perhaps you could start over again Matt by saying what you “feel” about the work and we could try to follow from there. I certainly hope that you do not get discouraged at this early stage Matt. As I said before, just remember that just because the month is about to close does not mean that the thread has to finish; a thread such as this is something that we should all be able to delve into from time to time. You are a valuable member of our small community here Matt and I do not want you to get frustrated so I think that by trying to get it right will be important. Please let me know what you think.