Tír Na HiFi

I certainly don't consider Lavardin to be a 'warmer', far from it. I also don't necessarily agree that putting together warmth and brightness leads to sonic nirvana, because you can't put back detail you take out, which is often what 'warmth' is doing.. I think there's a lot more to synergy than that.

I'm not clear why everyone seems to think that Wadia (every Wadia?) needs softening. That's the kind of hifi lore I'm referring to. It may be true, but I don't take it as read. When I sampled Wadia against other players (like the Opus 21 for example) I thought the 581 had a far fuller sound than most, and it was the Opus that seemed subjectively brighter. That's in one system with one set of ears of course. I just don't know if the reality always matches up to the conventional wisdom.

It's hard not to ascribe particular characteristics to particular brands but (obviously) it's how they interact that produces the end result. I never found Wadia sharp or harsh. A little dry and clinical for my taste but not bright. I found the Opus quite soft and more musical. Ears and rooms differ.
The only way to find the correct synergy is to audition every option available in situ. We've all heard systems built from top end gear that sounded awful.

Diapason wrote:I certainly don't consider Lavardin to be a 'warmer', far from it. I also don't necessarily agree that putting together warmth and brightness leads to sonic nirvana, because you can't put back detail you take out, which is often what 'warmth' is doing.. I think there's a lot more to synergy than that.

I'm not clear why everyone seems to think that Wadia (every Wadia?) needs softening. That's the kind of hifi lore I'm referring to. It may be true, but I don't take it as read. When I sampled Wadia against other players (like the Opus 21 for example) I thought the 581 had a far fuller sound than most, and it was the Opus that seemed subjectively brighter. That's in one system with one set of ears of course. I just don't know if the reality always matches up to the conventional wisdom.

I take your point: I guess I was responding to what you (correctly I think) identify as a consensus view or 'lore' at least on this site regarding the Wadia, and offering the Lavardin as a possible 'mitigator' . I don't have the experience that others describe to the Wadia, but then the only other amp I tried in the system was a Classe as these are meant to pair well with B&W: I found the sound not to my taste, a bit sterile and not as 'musical' as my experience with the Lavardin. Maybe I got lucky and found a sound that works for me : I am interested to try the Meridian in the system at some point to see if I can hear any significant difference attributable to source. (Later possibly upgrading to the Lavardin anniversary model or Devialet, both highly reccommended by Ivan in Cloneys.) No further attempt at insight I'm afraid!

I was tired and cranky when I wrote that last night, so apologies for the tone!

No apologies needed Si....


Its not that warmth in an amp is a cure for brightness elsewhere, its just that brightness coupled with brightness might not be the best combination.

In my own case I have a newish regime for trying out a new component. After running in etc, I try out all the audiophile, beautifully recorded tracks that I'm familiar with, yes even the crappy japanese jazz ones. But then I put on something like motown, or a wall of sound track. Those are harsh as bejaysus - if they are listenable you're on a winner!!

It takes very little to go from the point where sibilance is "there but OK" to where its annoying.
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I wouldn't like the impression to go out that there is something too dry or clinical or lean with wadia CDPs - as if there was something wrong with them. That's not really the case I think, its more that they are extremely clean, very clear soundstage and detail.


Fran

I'd agree with the above. I've used 'bright' as a loose term to describe the Wadia but it's perhaps the wrong word. I certainly didnt intend to insult any Wadia owners out there. :-))) Very clean and accurate is the best way to describe the Wadia to my ears. Likewise with the Airtight ATM2. Slightly lean and slightly pitched up in tone are the terms I've seen on other forums to describe it. Putting the above 2 together and feeding into a pair of Kharmas and I get the sound that I'm getting.

Now its because I get the same characteristic treble issue with my TT setup that I point the finger back at the ATM2. On my Pro-ject2 Tube SEII phonostage I've changed the jumpers on the back to change the cart loading from its min to max setting. The sound didnt really change from what I could tell. Therefore its almost as if the ATM2 is imposing its on character on the sound regardless.
What gives me hope is that a Meridian CDP was fine so perhaps a change of TT or phonostage might solve that side. I wanted to upgrade my TT setup anyway.

DaveF wrote:I'd agree with the above. I've used 'bright' as a loose term to describe the Wadia but it's perhaps the wrong word. I certainly didnt intend to insult any Wadia owners out there. :-))) Very clean and accurate is the best way to describe the Wadia to my ears. Likewise with the Airtight ATM2. Slightly lean and slightly pitched up in tone are the terms I've seen on other forums to describe it. Putting the above 2 together and feeding into a pair of Kharmas and I get the sound that I'm getting.

Now its because I get the same characteristic treble issue with my TT setup that I point the finger back at the ATM2. On my Pro-ject2 Tube SEII phonostage I've changed the jumpers on the back to change the cart loading from its min to max setting. The sound didnt really change from what I could tell. Therefore its almost as if the ATM2 is imposing its on character on the sound regardless.
What gives me hope is that a Meridian CDP was fine so perhaps a change of TT or phonostage might solve that side. I wanted to upgrade my TT setup anyway.

Tell us more :) Have a look here and see what you think...

Dave, what pre are you using? Or are you going straight to the power amp? I've oft seen it suggested that the direct connection can cause a "thinness", and I seem to recall Ciaran finding similar when he did some experiments in his place (albeit with entirely different equipment). In some ways it sounds perverse to put equipment in, but if you don't have one would it be worth borrowing a pre to see if that changes things? If you *do* have one, would it be worth sampling alternative pres?

(You'll spot that I kinda get my head around the idea of swapping out 2 sources!)

Diapason wrote:Dave, what pre are you using? Or are you going straight to the power amp? I've oft seen it suggested that the direct connection can cause a "thinness", and I seem to recall Ciaran finding similar when he did some experiments in his place (albeit with entirely different equipment). In some ways it sounds perverse to put equipment in, but if you don't have one would it be worth borrowing a pre to see if that changes things? If you *do* have one, would it be worth sampling alternative pres?

(You'll spot that I kinda get my head around the idea of swapping out 2 sources!)

Not using a pre Simon. Direct connection from the Opus21 to the ATM2. I've come across many comments alright that a pre in the path adds a bit of fat to the bone so to speak.
Basically you're telling me that I need an Airtight Pre also? :)

DaveF wrote: Basically you're telling me that I need an Airtight Pre also? :)

Yes, I think that's what I'm telling you.

(I have actually considered buying a pre as well, if only to add flexibility.)