Tír Na HiFi

Love the Hyperion sound.
BTW lots of monthly samplers (May to November) for free download at their site.

Jared wrote:

jaybee wrote:http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleev ... 31_500.jpg

..... and I give up, I can't, no matter how often I try it, warm to Bach's masses.... they leave me cold....

I don't doubt the genius, but it does nothing for me ( unlike the solo cello and violin works )

hmm... if the mass in B minor doesn't move you... :-/

tell you what, put it to one side for a couple of years, and let it collect a bit of dust. This is what I did with a couple of disks which I really struggled with very early on, but came back to them 3 years later to find them very pleasurable... you might find the same.

in the mean time, have a listen to some other Germanic baroque choral works, like Buxtehude's fabulous 'Membra Jesu Nostri' or some Biber, and work your way in.

I can speak with great authority as a Bach newbie particularly when it comes to struggles with his Sacred Music. I love his Christmas Oratorio but the one work that simply "blows my mind" is the Magnificat, it is wonderful music. JB, you may like it too, it is very easy on the ear and it is great for the soul (I'm starting to think I might have one).

And stay away from those old Bach recordings with massive orchestras and choruses. I wonder would you enjoy it more if you heard a more historically informed performance? If pushed I'd probably say the B minor mass is about the greatest work ever written, so I might be a bit biased, but I doubt I could stomach a HvK recording of it.

Diapason wrote:And stay away from those old Bach recordings with massive orchestras and choruses. I wonder would you enjoy it more if you heard a more historically informed performance? If pushed I'd probably say the B minor mass is about the greatest work ever written, so I might be a bit biased, but I doubt I could stomach a HvK recording of it.

agree with every single word, although I am a little more tolerant of the traditional versions, when they have fine soloists to mask the 'mush'. I have and enjoy the Richter set, although I doubt whether it's what Bach had in mind..

jaybee wrote:

I would also agree with the comments above that perhaps von Karajan (even though I am a fan of his) would not be best suited to this repertoire JB. Try someone like Herreweghe, Suzuki, Gardiner or Bruggen for better results.

Jared wrote:
tell you what, put it to one side for a couple of years, and let it collect a bit of dust. This is what I did with a couple of disks which I really struggled with very early on, but came back to them 3 years later to find them very pleasurable... you might find the same.

That is an interesting and timely comment as I bought this CD some years ago....





....and I did not like it at all, despite enjoying various forms of music for wind instruments. I played it about once a year for some years with no improvement in my appreciation until I played it a few days ago and it just clicked. I ended up enjoying (most) of the music after a few years of trying.

Diapason wrote:And stay away from those old Bach recordings with massive orchestras and choruses. I wonder would you enjoy it more if you heard a more historically informed performance? If pushed I'd probably say the B minor mass is about the greatest work ever written, so I might be a bit biased, but I doubt I could stomach a HvK recording of it.

maybe.... I do like the whole Egarr/Manze etc HIP stuff....

I'm not convinced though.... I feel cheated... I was expecting more!!!

I think I'll stick to small scale Bach works...

fergus wrote:

jaybee wrote:

I would also agree with the comments above that perhaps von Karajan (even though I am a fan of his) would not be best suited to this repertoire JB. Try someone like Herreweghe, Suzuki, Gardiner or Bruggen for better results.

You know there´s no greater fan of period performance practice than yours truly, but I have to admit that I learned the St. Matthew Passion from 2 very different recordings: the Harnoncourt/Wilcox and the DG Karajan, and I have to say that I learned a lot from both. At the time I didn´t mind too much the large orchestra and chorus, at least in the Matthew Passion (by the way, I was convinced much less by Karajan, B minor Mass), but what made the Karajan a valuable experience for me were some of the singers. Gundula Janowitz and most especially Christa Ludwig in the alto arias easily eclipsed Harnoncourt´s by no means negligible treble and countertenor. Peter Schreier and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau also were more vivid and compelling than Kurt Equiluz and Karl Ridderbusch.
On the other hand Harnoncourt had a much better tenor for the arias: the much missed Nigel Rogers, infinitely preferable to Karajan´s Horst Laubenthal.
The Concentus Musicus sonorities immediately seemed more adequate for the music than the beefy BPO, and to this day I´m infinitely grateful to Harnoncourt for all the things he has taught me. Really priceless, but also to this day I think Christa Ludwig´s "Erbarme dich" remains unsurpassed.

Jose Echenique wrote:......and to this day I´m infinitely grateful to Harnoncourt for all the things he has taught me. Really priceless, but also to this day I think Christa Ludwig´s "Erbarme dich" remains unsurpassed.

I am very fond of Harnoncourt, his Haydn, Beethoven and Brahms are marvellous; I did find his Schubert very disappointing though (but nobody is perfect), he has left a great, distinctive musical legacy.

Seán wrote:

Jose Echenique wrote:......and to this day I´m infinitely grateful to Harnoncourt for all the things he has taught me. Really priceless, but also to this day I think Christa Ludwig´s "Erbarme dich" remains unsurpassed.

I am very fond of Harnoncourt, his Haydn, Beethoven and Brahms are marvellous; I did find his Schubert very disappointing though (but nobody is perfect), he has left a great, distinctive musical legacy.

If anyone changed "the face of music" in the last past 60 years, it was Nikolaus Harnoncourt.
Before him the names of Alessandro Scarlatti, Francesco Cavalli, Ignaz von Biber, or Johann Fux were virtually unknown. There were other important pioneers of course, like Gustav Leonhardt, August Wezinger and the Collegium Aureum, but it was Harnoncourt single handedly who made the statement that couldn´t be ignored, and Bach, Handel and Vivaldi were never the same again. One generation later it was Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven, and a legion of talented disciples followed, including Gardiner, Christie, Jacobs, Brüggen...and the rest, but it was Harnoncourt who started the fire, no doubt about that.