A turntable, finally?

[Diapason]

Thanks Fran. Definitely time to explore second hand options now.

[Derek]

Ahh lads, yis are worse than the Covid so yis are. I've been sibilant free for years and years not a hint, now sibilance, sibilance everywhere.
I was foolish enough to dig out me ould Graceland record and a copy of Paul Simon's Anthology CD the old version from 1993, not the newer icky one. It has 7 Graceland tracks and not remastered, but lads now I'm hearing sssssss's every feckin' where. Yis are an awful shower so yis are.
I just hope me beloved Nina Simone doesn't get the same infection.

Yours Sincerely
End of rant

[Diapason]

I am truly sorry!! LOL

[Ivor]

Ahh lads, yis are worse than the Covid so yis are. I've been sibilant free for years and years not a hint, now sibilance, sibilance everywhere.
I was foolish enough to dig out me ould Graceland record and a copy of Paul Simon's Anthology CD the old version from 1993, not the newer icky one. It has 7 Graceland tracks and not remastered, but lads now I'm hearing sssssss's every feckin' where. Yis are an awful shower so yis are.
I just hope me beloved Nina Simone doesn't get the same infection.

Yours Sincerely
End of rant

This reinforces my own beliefs.... Nina has always been sibilant to me but I simply don't care. I don't think my original mid eighties copy of Graceland was sibilant but then my system was basic enough not to know - my mpre recent "Music on Vinyl" copy is listenable - the music brings me back to it. I love the way Louis is "close miked" on Ella & Louis. Yes sibilance can be a problem but how we react to it, within reason, is where the solution lies. The same is true of poorly programmed music files, and of sterile CDs, and of tape noise.

[Diapason]

Can't argue, Ivor!

Then again, you're talking to a man who once asked a stranger sitting beside him in Wigmore Hall to put his watch in his pocket. He had never even noticed that it ticked. Let's just say I have long since accepted that I'm the crazy one...

[Ivor]

Can't argue, Ivor!

Then again, you're talking to a man who once asked a stranger sitting beside him in Wigmore Hall to put his watch in his pocket. He had never even noticed that it ticked. Let's just say I have long since accepted that I'm the crazy one...

and you are among friends here... but the main thing is to enjoy the music.

[Diapason]

I wasn't going to poke this bear any further on this, but it's a miserable day and I've a job to do that I don't want to do so let me kill a few more minutes!

First of all, the issue I am having isn't what I would consider "normal" sibilance, and is not in any way related to brightness of the system. The sonics here are anything but bright, we're talking old-school Sonus Faber speakers, a Copland hybrid amp, if there's a criticism you might level it's that the whole thing is lacking in sparkle. Lovely to listen to, but in that broad-brush way. The addition of the TT hasn't changed that, the sound is full and warm, not bright at all. For those difficult records it's strayed into what I would consider very serious distortion, akin to overloading an amp or similar. It's not something you'd wave away as something to live with, hence my earlier feeling that there must be something actually wrong. I might try to record the bits on my phone and share them hear, because I don't think you'll need special gear to hear what I'm talking about for those couple of moments.

As for the wider issue, the funny thing is that I don't normally have an issue with sibilance at all. I was actually thinking of you, Dermot, because I know it's the bane of your life, but I've got away with it so far. Obviously I have lots of bright recordings, and I have plenty of examples of the worst excesses of digital horror, but standalone sibilance issues are new to me. In a way, I think it's exacerbated by the general warmth of the rest of the sound, because it makes them stand out more if anything. Like I said above, I wasn't sure what to expect from vinyl listening in general, but I'm finding lots of positives where I wasn't expecting them and some negatives where I wasn't expecting them.

I listened a fair bit over the weekend and the issue is widespread. Not every LP, but lots of LPs are showing problems, and to be honest I'm not sure what to do now. The ones that have the real issues are hard to listen past, tbh. We're not in "just ignore it and enjoy the music" territory, we're in "turn it off and try something else" territory, and that's the last thing I need. Annoyingly, when it's good it's great, so I'd like to make it good more of the time.

As a final shot, here's an interesting finding: I was going to compare Tears in Heaven (Clapton Unplugged) with a digital equivalent, so I changed inputs on the amp and left the record playing. In the silence of the room, I could hear the music quietly coming from the headshell/cartridge, and what was interesting was that the distortion could be clearly heard even there. I had thought there might be a chance that the problem was downstream, but it seems not.

Should I start messing with the alignment, do you think? The Rega cart comes on a 3-point mounting that's meant to be automatic, and it looks ok against the protractor enclosed with the TT, but I think this is the only potential adjustment I have left. Any thoughts?

[Ivor]

I could hear the music quietly coming from the headshell/cartridge, and what was interesting was that the distortion could be clearly heard even there.

I think on any system a pointy bit mounted on a block of plastic will sound like that. I suspect that this is (and it's far from unusual or unique) a case of what is heard cannot be unheard. A " broad brush" system is a good thing... recordings and pressings differ, genres differ. I go from Robert Johnston recordings to John Grant in an evening... we need a system that will competently handle all.
In short... step away from the protractor! Maybe something as simple as a teeny tiny tighten on the bolts holding the cart in place?

[Claus]

I just want to throw in my 2 cents.... I was having very similar issues after moving the system back. It was limited to some records but was consistent especially towards the end of certain records. My TT was set up by Noel a good while back and it was working really well. I eventually realigned my cartridge in tiny increments and it helped a lot. I can still get the odd distorted patch, but it is very rare now. I know that with the Rega 3-point cart mounting system it should not be a problem, but I would still wonder if everything is aligned correctly as the conclusion was - at least to me - that it doesn't take a lot of misalignment in the setup for distortion to potentially cause problems... I have also found that the ability to track "well" varies significantly from cart to cart. My old DV 10x5 cart was amazing compared to the rega Elys it replaced...

[cybot]

Firstly Simon I absolutely feel your pain! That's beyond anything I've ever come across. Thankfully I eventually got my 'little' silybance (aye silly!) problem sorted in my head and otherwise.
The fact that you could still hear it in situ tells me that there is something not quite right. Your supersonic ears are your friends this time! Have you had a look at the stylus itself? Is it positioned properly, square and all that? By stylus I mean the needle bit.....Of course the trouble with the Ely's is you just can't pop it out and have a look, assembly 'n all. What I'm trying to say is this : it could possbly be a faulty cartridge. Now that is something I've had experience with which shocked me. Briefly : a few years back I had no choice but to change my beloved Goldring for a Nagaoka MP 110 (I upgraded my OL arm for a Wand arm with the spindly wiring) - totally incompatible with my Goldring. After a few months of happy listening I was suddenly accosted with loud bangs! While a record was playing! Every five minutes or so bang, bang, bang! Long story short : they were caused by static due to inadequate magnet placement on the stylus assembly in my opinion. Nobody but nobody could advise me what to do apart from the usual earthing shenanigans. Eventually I returned the Wand arm and changed it for an Ace Space arm which was more compatible with my deck. Reinstalled the Nag. Bliss? Er, NO! Same problem! Reinstalled my Goldring. Problem solved! So it was the bloody Nag all along! Apart from what I thought was wrong it could simply have been a faulty batch. Batch? Yes I bought a spare one I was so delighted with how well it was performing on the Wand in the early stages. Guess what? Same problem!!!!!!!!!!

Don't worry you will get it sorted even if it means a different cartridge. Let us know how you get on....