Tír Na HiFi

tony wrote:Try JKDAC32 on trial?
I could swap the airtight for a Marantz PM66KI if you want to try a different amp.
Could it be valve types that are causing the problem? Is that the same amp as Ivors?

I would love to try the JKDAC however it will only work with a PC/laptop front end via USB. If it had stereo RCA inputs I'd have tried it out long ago.
I still have a problem with using a computer as a source. I cant see how its more convienent that simply picking a CD off the shelf, drop it in the tray and press play. But that's an arguement for a different thread.

My amp is not the same as Ivors. Uses different valves and has different output power.

Thats your choice re dac and I can understand that. I couldnt get rid of that amp if I got as far as owning it. I assume you have trawled the net for other users and their sources to ascertain if this is a common problem. Have you found anybody you trust with the same amp that advises using a particular source?

Fran wrote:Borrow/Try another source first?

Fran

I think this is the route I'll go down........again.
The Meridian G06 reviews have a common theme: sense of ease, refined, effortless etc. This was the same impression that I got from the older discontinued G07 player.

tony wrote:I couldnt get rid of that amp if I got as far as owning it.

Have to say, that wouldn't be my view.

From where I'm standing, if you took away the "lore" of the Air Tight, you'd have decided long ago that it was the problem and you'd have moved on. Introduction of Air Tight caused problem, problem persisted with 2 sets of speakers, problem continues to persist on CD and analogue sources, problem persists in 2 different listening spaces. I know it's all a question of synergy, and there's almost certainly a way of changing sources to get back to a sound you like, but that seems a bit mad to me. Forget about reviews and reputation, was the ATM2 the right upgrade at the right time? Possibly not...

Still, I know what it's like to fall in love with a product and want to make it work. I certainly understand that.

Diapason wrote:..... was the ATM2 the right upgrade at the right time? Possibly not...

Now that's a thought I've had for quite a while now. I took the opportunity to snap it up at the time as I had plans to get the Kharmas. If the ATM2 is a source of treble problems then surely Briano's system would have shown it up too. His previous Marten's are just as transparent as the Kharmas and he had a Wadia too just like I had. But his was heavily modified.

I'll just have to make do with what I have and its still pretty good. Just an annoyance on some recordings. If Jadis JA80's ever came up.....

Well, look on the bright side: at least you've got a good new room! Some of us don't even have that luxury!!

well, you could look at it another way. Perhaps the ATM2 is very revealing of any source. Treble harshness, etched sound wouldnt be the first time that such words were levelled against a Wadia. Simon, you also had similar issues with your Wadia/system and there was never an Airtight in the system. Your new monos have perhaps smoothed over any issues that the Wadia had. Whereas I have to go the other way.

Right..........?

DaveF wrote:well, you could look at it another way. Perhaps the ATM2 is very revealing of any source. Treble harshness, etched sound wouldnt be the first time that such words were levelled against a Wadia. Simon, you also had similar issues with your Wadia/system and there was never an Airtight in the system. Your new monos have perhaps smoothed over any issues that the Wadia had. Whereas I have to go the other way.

Right..........?

You could indeed look at it that way. Well, kinda. In my case it now seems reasonably clear that all my "harsh" issues were to do with odd mains power. When I discussed the problems with Ivan and gave the opinion that I blamed the source, he was very surprised to hear that, because he said he'd never considered the Wadia "bright" in any way. Niall said the same when I discussed it with him. It's now completely clear to me that the harsh/bright problems were entirely intermittent. (It still happens, BTW, the new monos haven't changed that aspect at all.) That's its own pain in the arse, no doubt about it, and maybe you could blame shoddy power supplies in the Wadia or whatever, but I'm now 100% sure that brightness is NOT part and parcel of my player's sound when everything is working properly. At this point, I'm relieved that I didn't go down the road of choosing a warmer source. I don't feel that my amps are compensating for problems with the player at all, but of course I've no way of knowing for sure.

That's not to say that your assessment of the Air Tight is wrong, but to fire a shot across your bows, I have certainly seen people online who find the ATM-2 bright compared to similar amps. The good people of Audio Federation don't really rate them at all, finding them harmonically dull(!). What does this mean? Nothing in and of itself, but I'm just pointing out that contrary views exist out there.

Let me play devil's advocate here for a second. Don't take offence from anything that follows, nor should you think I'm telling you what to do. It's actually quite the contrary, because I think in your shoes I'd do what you're doing, hand on heart. But anyway, devil's advocate for the moment:

On this forum I get the sense that people have very positive views about Air Tight but more mixed views about Wadia. That's fair enough, it may indeed be completely valid, but it's very easy to let conventional wisdom get in on you without really challenging it. You haven't challenged the Air Tight yet with anything of a similar class, as far as I can tell. In fact, with the exception of Fran's amps (which I firmly believe were underpowered for the job at hand) have you tried any other amps with your new speakers? I know the ATM2 is a premium product with a great reputation, but if it had a Sony badge on the front would you feel differently about it? You've heard it sound good in Briano's system, but to be fair, there were no components in common there with your system. Despite the similar drive units, I'm led to believe that Martens sound pretty different to Kharmas.

Then there's the Kharmas themselves. For all their great reputation, some people HATE them with all of their being. I refer you to http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/Sho ... =3184#3184:
"Absolutely the coldest sound I've ever heard. This speaker even with tube amplification I can describe best as like a 2000 RPM meat slicer chopping the music up into little pieces. Sure, the audiophile buzzwords like resolution and soundstage come in to play, however in the event that your source was even slightly bright..... it would be rendered totally unlistenable by these little abominations. Oh.......let I forget.........no bass either!"

So, basically, reputation is meaningless and all that matters is what your ears tell you. Your ears are telling you there's a problem, that's clear, but there are many ways you could attack that. Changing sources requires 2 changes: CD player and TT. Changing amp might require only one change, and *might* give you the sound you're looking for. I say again, the problem came with the Air Tight, maybe it will go with it too...

PS You should do a search for Kharma on that goodsoundclub.com site. It's pretty entertaining!!

Interesting post alright. Yes I've read that link about the Kharmas before. But since the problems also existed with my Ushers I dont think the Kharmas are contributing to the problem at all. Personally I love what the Kharmas do and would never have decribed them as chopping up the music.

As for Fran's amps having the same issue when driving my speakers, that confuses things for me. An underpowered amp would have poorer base response yes, and that was the case, BUT his amps had same treble issue as the Airtight in my system. That's the spanner in the works for me.

My engineering mind is trying to fit logic to all of this but nothing will fit. :-) Perhaps I do have fairies in system afterall.

Dave,
have you tried altering the bias on the ATM's valves? Quite fiddly on the ATM2 but you could soften the sound of the amp itself that way. Fran might be able to advise if this notion has any merit at all.