Bits-are-bits-brigade and why they are wrong

[Rocker]

Simon's reply to my post (on page 2) points out an omission in my post, namely 'in my system' or 'at my house'. My ranking of cables are based on observations of my system in our music room. Not a dealers shop, a show or another formite's system. In my system in our house.

My findings may not apply anywhere else of course. As I already said, I am one of those guys who believe that everything matters. To some degree or other. Even if you cannot hear the difference, I believe that it is there. The system 'sound' moves when, for example, you change speaker cables. It becomes brighter/darker, fuller, clearer or whatever. Putting say a set of isolating pads under your CD player will shift the sound again, possibly in a different direction. Even changes to the room furniture will have some affect. The room itself is another variable. Move your system into another room and you are listening to a different system!

Be that as it may, we all end up with our systems sounding more or less how we want it to. My 'truth in sound' is slightly different to yours or anybody else. I have heard a lot of hi-fi systems in a lot of differing environments to know that my sound is different than nearly every other system out there. When I listen to somebody's system in their music room, I prefer to hear the music that the owner listens to. I may or may not like the chosen tracks and I believe that I am honest enough to say that 'I like the track' or 'this music does nothing for me'. The latter comment is not a criticism of the system owner or the sound, rather the music is not to my taste. In a similar vein, I dislike bringing a few of my favorite CDs to hear how they sound on another system.

I cannot 'prove' that my system sound is 'accurate' or even close. I do know that I like it. Everything in it has been selected to give me the sound I have now. Even the digital cable plays its part. I did once take the system apart for room re-decoration. The speakers were too heavy to move so they were well covered and stayed put. During re-assembly of the system I used bog standard mains cabling, speaker cables and freebie interconnects. To check if I had been fooling myself. I left the system setup like that for over a month. It sounded very ordinary and nowhere near what the price would suggest it should. It was only when I replaced all my cables that the sound gelled. Self delusion? I hardly think so. I have no measurements before or after to prove my point. But I know. And that is all that matters to me.

[Diapason]

During re-assembly of the system I used bog standard mains cabling, speaker cables and freebie interconnects. To check if I had been fooling myself. I left the system setup like that for over a month. It sounded very ordinary and nowhere near what the price would suggest it should. It was only when I replaced all my cables that the sound gelled. Self delusion? I hardly think so. I have no measurements before or after to prove my point. But I know. And that is all that matters to me.

That test would be plenty for me too, Rocker, for my ears and my system, and I'd be very happy with that outcome.

[Ivor]

During re-assembly of the system I used bog standard mains cabling, speaker cables and freebie interconnects. To check if I had been fooling myself. I left the system setup like that for over a month. It sounded very ordinary and nowhere near what the price would suggest it should. It was only when I replaced all my cables that the sound gelled. Self delusion? I hardly think so. I have no measurements before or after to prove my point. But I know. And that is all that matters to me.

That test would be plenty for me too, Rocker, for my ears and my system, and I'd be very happy with that outcome.

that's something I've done in the past with new cables or even amps/CDPs. After a few months take them out, put back the old ones (if available) and try it... so far I've always changed back to the upgrade pretty sharpish!

[tony]

Well that is all sorted then back to normal issues. Tom can you explain intermittent flashing of lights? I am suffering from this it seems to be the low energy ones that are affected.Comes and goes.

[jkeny]

Heres something to consider from a well respected scientist - Jneutron - I'm not fully sure of the field he works in - particle accelerator project or high energy physics where he deals with & knows something about EMC, PS, CM noise etc. I've followed his posts on DIYAudio & the guy knows his onions.

This post comes from Audiocircle http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?to ... msg1252122

The ground loop forced upon us by safety allows coupling between the currents in the grounds and the inputs and outputs of the equipment. This is worst for unbalanced equipment, but it still exists in balanced equipment.

The equipment you can buy has not been adequately designed for EMC ( Electromagnetic Compatibility). EMC requires all currents into and out of equipment be controlled.

As a consequence, much can get into the signal stream depending on the physical size of the ground loop, and what magnetic fields can get trapped in that loop.

The biggest challenge actually comes from the equipment itself. Power amps modulate the AC line current based on the audio power delivery to the speakers, and that modulation is odd order harmonics on the powerline, and even order harmonics within the amplifier chassis. Also present on the line will be some of the actual music frequencies.

So when somebody says that changing a powercord or an IC, or even some widget like the devices being discussed here causes change to either the during-music background noise, or modification of the soundstage imaging, they may not be imagining itOf course, expectation bias also exists.. There are real engineering reasons for this type of coupling.

The easiest thing for a user to do is to try moving the IC's and powercords around. One solution that has worked well for me is to wrap the IC's around the power cord between the source and sink. I've only done this for unbalanced IC's up to 125 feet, so cannot say if it works for long lengths..

jn

Interesting to hear from anybody who tries his tip about wrapping the ICs around the power cord.

[Rocker]

I did not read the info on the link John but my gut instinct is to keep mains cabling and interconnects as far apart as possible and if they have to cross, to do so at right angles. TBH it never occurred to me to try running them side by side or braided [??] - makes me wonder if he is pulling our leg...........

[jkeny]

I did not read the info on the link John but my gut instinct is to keep mains cabling and interconnects as far apart as possible and if they have to cross, to do so at right angles. TBH it never occurred to me to try running them side by side or braided [??] - makes me wonder if he is pulling our leg...........

No, he's definitely not leg-pulling - I've seen him state this on many occasions & the fact that he has used such a system on stadium audio systems. Try it & see what you think.

[nige2000]

surely not the ic's thats in use?

[jkeny]

surely not the ic's thats in use?

I haven't tried it myself but then I don't have mains powered audio system so avoid any problem completely, I believe!

[jkeny]

Here's another nugget of wisdom from Jneutron (actually someone summarising him) that I WILL try - this time about speaker cables http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?to ... msg1192860

Actually, there is plenty of good science about speaker cables disseminated right here on this circle. Just look at the posts of jneutron and how he explains EMC theory in how it relates to speaker cables. To make it simple, you want to construct the cables so they have the closest characteristic impedance to the midband characteristic impedance of the speakers you are using, no more than a factor of 2-4 difference. No one here has yet offered any reasonable argument to dispel jneutron's explanations.