New JKDAC32 USB DAC

[dhyantyke]

dhyantyke, as Fran said it is not really to do with tweaking variables - we were doing so only because I found the sound from my DACs embarassing when we first played them. It really is a simple case of putting this DAC in your system & you either like the sound or you don't. If it is not performing as it should I will be able to tell you & we can probably sort it out. Ask Sligolad - there is really no need for any tweaking or consideration of variables unless you want to do so.

The addition of a remote app that runs on your iPad or Andrid tablet gives you the same remote control functionality (probably more) than you get with Sooloos or Sonos and it keeps the PC or laptop hidden in the background & behind the scenes.

Ah, I see you posted while I was composing.

I suggested that I would offer a tour of these devices for people to try in their home systems but I didn't get any expression of interest. Maybe this is one?

Yes John. But as you know I am in the sticks so not an easy one logistically. I'm starting from scratch and I think the first move is to purchase a laptop which will be pretty much dedicated to music server function rather than rattling along with my old pc. If we could get together that would be great. (Seems right here to note that jkenny has been very helpful in getting me orientated here through pm. Thanks john)

[DaveF]

squeezebox - yes as Ciaran said, objectively it was fine, but subjectively much less involved, just didn't hold the attention. In fact when it was playing I turned around and all of us were chatting, whereas before with either the jkdac or the dsc stack playing we all shut up and listened.

hmm I didnt think that the gap was quite as big as the rest of you thought. Maybe there was a bit of expectation bias against the squeezebox as in deep down none of us really expected it to be in the league of the JKDac and dCS. Perhaps we had switched off a bit at that point.

[Ciaran]

squeezebox - yes as Ciaran said, objectively it was fine, but subjectively much less involved, just didn't hold the attention. In fact when it was playing I turned around and all of us were chatting, whereas before with either the jkdac or the dsc stack playing we all shut up and listened.

hmm I didnt think that the gap was quite as big as the rest of you thought. Maybe there was a bit of expectation bias against the squeezebox as in deep down none of us really expected it to be in the league of the JKDac and dCS. Perhaps we had switched off a bit at that point.

There could have been an element of "switching off" all right: we were hearing the same track for the third time and we'd already done a lot of comparing so we were tired. I think if we'd heard the Squeezebox into the dCS DAC without anything to compare it with, we would have been impressed with how good it was. When I originally got it the dCS Verdi was away for repair and I felt that it sounded just as good as the "stand-in" transport I was using at the time (kindly provided by Cloney's). It was only when the Verdi came back that I started to think of it as being in way deficient. I assume that the difference is due in some measure to the fact that I can't clock it with the dCS Verona.

[Ken Moreland]

JK , please see this post as an expression of interest, I'm being drawn inexorably towards the JKDAC32 and keen to see how it compares to the MK2/Benchmark. Put me down for a seat on the tour.

dhyantyke,
Really there's not much to setting up this and if you want to do it as a trial for almost free, book yourself a ticket for the JKDAC tour, download a trial copy of Jplay and get/borrow a PC or laptop with Windows 7 and you're ready to go. All the settings talked about previously are easily set and require no computer knowledge.

KM

[DaveF]

I assume that the difference is due in some measure to the fact that I can't clock it with the dCS Verona.

plus all that fancy digital filtering that they do on FPGAs. Their 5 bit oversampling topology is certainly unique in audio. It adds very very small improvements to various aspects of the sound: bass, weight, body, depth, instrument separation, etc but when you add it all up it just seems to contribute that bit extra overall.

[Ciaran]

I assume that the difference is due in some measure to the fact that I can't clock it with the dCS Verona.

plus all that fancy digital filtering that they do on FPGAs. Their 5 bit oversampling topology is certainly unique in audio. It adds very very small improvements to various aspects of the sound: bass, weight, body, depth, instrument separation, etc but when you add it all up it just seems to contribute that bit extra overall.

Yes but the Squeezebox's digital output is going into the Scarlatti DAC, so it gets all the same treatment as the digital output from the Verdi: as far as I can see, the only difference is that the Verdi is clocked with the Verona and the Squeezebox is not. Stereophile's review (if that's a relaible witness) claimed the Touch was pretty much bit-transparent as a digital streamer, so when I compared (not when you were all there) a downloaded FLAC with the same track burnt to CD, it would have been the same bits arriving at the Scarlatti DAC's digital inputs from each source. The sound from the Verdi was quite a bit better.

[DaveF]

plus all that fancy digital filtering that they do on FPGAs. Their 5 bit oversampling topology is certainly unique in audio. It adds very very small improvements to various aspects of the sound: bass, weight, body, depth, instrument separation, etc but when you add it all up it just seems to contribute that bit extra overall.

Yes but the Squeezebox's digital output is going into the Scarlatti DAC, so it gets all the same treatment as the digital output from the Verdi: as far as I can see, the only difference is that the Verdi is clocked with the Verona and the Squeezebox is not. Stereophile's review (if that's a relaible witness) claimed the Touch was pretty much bit-transparent as a digital streamer, so when I compared (not when you were all there) a downloaded FLAC with the same track burnt to CD, it would have been the same bits arriving at the Scarlatti DAC's digital inputs from each source. The sound from the Verdi was quite a bit better.

ah ok then. It must be down to the extremely low jitter on the clock so. I think I read somewhere(some tech guy on the Wigwam forum) that they got the jitter down to 15ps. No idea if its true or not.

[Ciaran]

I once enquired about clocking on the Slim Devices forum and got an answer from Sean Adams (founder of Slim Devices, original maker of Squeezebox before it was taken over by Logitech) to the effect that an external master clock couldn't possibly help, would probably only make jitter worse and was only a way for dCS to sell me an extra box. I can see some logic in this, but one listen is enough to show it can't be right: Verdi ad Scarlatti DAC with the Scarlatti's internal clock as master sound good, but even better when they're both clocked by the Verona.

[jkeny]

My opinion was that the two sources, SB Touch (through the dCs) & JKDAC (straight into preamp) were close enough that they needed A/B switching to be able to tell if there was a difference. I certainly wasn't engaged as much with the Touch but repetition & tiredness could well be a factor, as Ciaran said.

I don't know the dCs technology but would never favour oversampling. I don't believe it adds anything that can't be achieved better in non-os form. I think Ciaran stated that he heard an improvement going from os to non-os?

Again, I don't know the dCs workings but low clock jitter is a great start but not the full picture, by any means. Firstly, in audio a lot has to do with the spectrum of that jitter. Secondly, the jitter measured directly at the input to the DAC is what counts & not the output from the clock i.e if it goes through a SPDIF transmitter & SPDIF receiver, at least another 50 -100ps of jitter will be added (at best). If the clock is being used synchronously or asynchronously is a major factor in the sound irrespective of the jitter level of the clock.

I don't have a means of measuring jitter ($10,000 equipment) but others have done so on the stock Hiface running off USB power & the jitter level coming out of the SPDIF transmitter is 10-12ps of jitter http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic ... 825#p44825 Running off battery & with the mods that I do I would expect the jitter to be less than that value. So I guess I might be beating dCs then :)

I've seen that guy Sean Adams giving out this sort of technically inept information before!

[jkeny]

Brought the same two DACs over to Sligolad's (Pearse) place tonight to compare to his burnt-in JKDAC32. I expected to find a difference between the JKDAC32 I brought & his JKDAC32 but we couldn't perceive any. A slight difference was heard between the JKDAC (Sabre) & the JKDAC32 (Burr Brown DAC) but favouring the BB DAC. This is the opposite of the preference favoured in Ciaran's.

Sometime's you just have to accept differences & resist the need to try to explain it. This is one of those times, I guess.