Item Phase IV Computer Audio Recipes

[nige2000]

Hm, curious how much better the Leadex Power Supplies are vs. my Seasonic X 400 fanless...

ive a seasonic x 400 here and ive just ordered the leadex 750 so ill tell you in a week or so

sweet!

did not find the super flower better than the xm21x and pico although the difference wasn't big there was more detail and better bass control with the xm21x and pico150xt

the difference certainly wasn't as tight between the xm21x and the pico and the seasonic fanless 400 last time i checked
so the superflower 750 is probably one of the best standard atx supplies

i dont feel it necessary to take the seasonic out of my desktop to do a direct a-b comparison with the superflower

i wouldnt consider it a worthy upgrade to the seasonic

your well practiced in diy why not just build three linear rails for the pc would be simple for you

[wushuliu]

Thanks for reporting back. I may still get one anyway (has to be an EVGA version, can't get Super Flower itself in the states). As much as I prefer diy setting up 3 linear supplies is a messy prospect that will have to wait. At the rate things are moving my hope is that the gap between ATX and linear will be much closer in a couple more years.

[nige2000]

Thanks for reporting back. I may still get one anyway (has to be an EVGA version, can't get Super Flower itself in the states). As much as I prefer diy setting up 3 linear supplies is a messy prospect that will have to wait. At the rate things are moving my hope is that the gap between ATX and linear will be much closer in a couple more years.

Re branding superflower as evga is it?
The linear 12v and pico is a good option but very dependent on the linear supply quality

There's still a huge gap between the sq either the superflower or the linear xm21x's and pico 150xt combo
And direct three rail into the motherboard
Think it's because having multiple rails manages mobo noise better
There's also a fan on the superflower so when ever it gets quite you can hear it

[wushuliu]

Thanks for reporting back. I may still get one anyway (has to be an EVGA version, can't get Super Flower itself in the states). As much as I prefer diy setting up 3 linear supplies is a messy prospect that will have to wait. At the rate things are moving my hope is that the gap between ATX and linear will be much closer in a couple more years.

Re branding superflower as evga is it?
The linear 12v and pico is a good option but very dependent on the linear supply quality

There's still a huge gap between the sq either the superflower or the linear xm21x's and pico 150xt combo
And direct three rail into the motherboard
Think it's because having multiple rails manages mobo noise better
There's also a fan on the superflower so when ever it gets quite you can hear it

Yeah some of the evgas are SF supplies. Though I have no doubt the linear rails are better my PC setup is too cramped right now to allow diy and I have less time to tinker than I used to. So if the SF is indeed an improvement over the Seasonic I may just go ahead and get one.

[item_audio]

I'm surprised by your findings, Nige . . . the SuperFlower is measurably less noisy than the PicoPSU. Also, with the fan set to Eco rather than Auto, it shouldn't spin up.

The cost of the Leadex (branded EVGA in the States) is very similar to the linear bench + Pico. At present, it certainly seems better than any other 'off the shelf' ATX supply.

And it will respond better to filtering fore and aft than the linear+Pico route we used to promote. With such filtering in place, the same levels of 'quietness' can be achieved for much less money than a three rail linear - and with much greater headroom for the more powerful processors we are going to need for optimal DSD resampling.

So I see the future belonging to high capacity, universally compatible switching supplies like the Leadex, with filtering and transformer isolation being the upgrade path, not a reinvention of the wheel - or wrangling the compatibility issues going all linear direct to mobo entails. Believe me, we've been there!

The other part of my thinking on this is that by the time you've separated the PCIe bus from the PC with a power injector, and isolated the USB power from the DAC's viewpoint - and, crucially, prevented the AC-DC stage from injecting noise into the mains, a very high quality switcher will be absolutely 'good enough'. And I don't use the G.E expression lightly . . .

[nige2000]

I'm surprised by your findings, Nige . . . the SuperFlower is measurably less noisy than the PicoPSU. Also, with the fan set to Eco rather than Auto, it shouldn't spin up.

i had it on auto ill test it again

The cost of the Leadex (branded EVGA in the States) is very similar to the linear bench + Pico. At present, it certainly seems better than any other 'off the shelf' ATX supply.

best atx supply ive tested by quite a margin

And it will respond better to filtering fore and aft than the linear+Pico route we used to promote. With such filtering in place, the same levels of 'quietness' can be achieved for much less money than a three rail linear - and with much greater headroom for the more powerful processors we are going to need for optimal DSD resampling.

are you using capacitors to filter?
the haswell chips dont need much power, dont think it would be an issue

So I see the future belonging to high capacity, universally compatible switching supplies like the Leadex, with filtering and transformer isolation being the upgrade path, not a reinvention of the wheel - or wrangling the compatibility issues going all linear direct to mobo entails. Believe me, we've been there!

i understand your position i wouldn't want to deal with the customer service part of sales either, easier to work with off the shelf parts as far as sales are concerned
when looking to push the boundaries multiple lifepo4 batteries would be difficult to beat

The other part of my thinking on this is that by the time you've separated the PCIe bus from the PC with a power injector, and isolated the USB power from the DAC's viewpoint - and, crucially, prevented the AC-DC stage from injecting noise into the mains, a very high quality switcher will be absolutely 'good enough'. And I don't use the G.E expression lightly . . .

the pcs timing is based on the noisy power supply it is supplied with it will always have an effect downstream, and probably some other stuff i dont understand, but much improvement would be had isolating the pci card and dac
always amazes me the sq thats achieved with our pcs when its such a flawed system ;)

[wushuliu]

Well I went and ordered the EVGA 850 G2 (Super Flower). Techpowerup.com measurements show only 4.6 to 7.4mV max ripple on all rails at 10% load. That's pretty freakin' impressive!

[nige2000]

The spec sheets pretty impressive
For me the only thing that matters is the sq test
Not many would buy a dac on the merits of a spec sheet
The superflower seems to be pretty good but there's always other upgrades that cost little money
If using mqn having an avx compatible processor is a great advantage
As is batteries for ssd
Providing clean external usb power to dac
Usb cable anything is better than stock printer cable (used a printer cable last night was an astonishing drop in sq)

[wushuliu]

The spec sheets pretty impressive
For me the only thing that matters is the sq test
Not many would buy a dac on the merits of a spec sheet
The superflower seems to be pretty good but there's always other upgrades that cost little money
If using mqn having an avx compatible processor is a great advantage
As is batteries for ssd
Providing clean external usb power to dac
Usb cable anything is better than stock printer cable (used a printer cable last night was an astonishing drop in sq)

Yeah but there are many dacs that have outstanding specs on paper whereas ATX supplies of this caliber have been unheard of until recently so although no there is no guarantee of sound quality it at least promises an extremely reliable foundation upon which to pursue other improvements. It may also prove helpful for any under/over clocking and/or cpu/ram/voltage changing tweaks by possibly allowing greater flexibility due to the low ripple and tight tolerances.

There are always better options but some of us need to strike a balance between a web of wires and exposed parts dangling all over the place and plug and play. Not to mention some 'inexpensive' tweaks could very easily go zap when it comes to computers and then next thing you know you're replacing parts.

One thing I've learned from diy, including building PCs over the years is no matter how simple someone makes it sound diy is never easy!

[rickmcinnis]

As one involved in the cMP/cPLAY adventures in quieting dedicated PCs for music it is gratifying to see this thread.

One thing not mentioned was "Serge's" recommendation of using a PCI-E video card to get the video function away from the processor, or, at least, that's what he opined it would do.

Does seem to add something. Find an old card with as little memory as possible and hear if it works with your system.

Another thing I have yet to see mentioned is removing unneeded audio and video chips from the motherboard. Once you get the hang of using a heat gun it is pretty easy if still nerve wracking. This was Jack Wong's idea. I would love to know what Jack is up to these days. A fountain of knowledge and ideas.

I had got six months ago a ROSEWELL power supply, the one with the heatsink and no fan. It is made by the SUPERFLOWER folks. I thought it was an improvement over what had been available.

Years ago I assembled a linear supply, powered all of the rails with their own transformers and BELLESON regulators - P4 powered separately along with the drives, mouse, and keyboard. Needless to say this is a one computer system so I need all of the peripherals.

Wondering if anyone has any idea of how much further along this new recommended supply might be from the ROSEWELL I have? It looks like no other computer supply I had ever bought.

One thing with linear supplies - they are a pain, some motherboards are not happy with them, regulators need to be as close to the circuit as possible and mine were at the end of the same wire loom that attached to an unused supply. No anywhere close to ideal. I suspect I really do not know how good a linear supply can be and, at this point, I have lost interest. Just the packaging of all of that stuff is something I can only deal with when I am in DIGITAL ONLY mode. AS long as my phono system is working well I am not as interested in the sacrifices needed for using the linear supply.

I agree with others that there will be an ATX supply that will work as well as any linear and with some luck even better.

Sure wish we could find a way to crack the file protection service in SERVER 2012.