Tír Na HiFi

Terry wrote:

Fran wrote:she be a thing of beauty Terry.

Thanks Fran. Sounds good too.

@ Twebber. The C-200 and P-300 pre and power are superb units but the asking is too high. They can be had separately in top condition for €900 or thereabouts. They predate my amp by ten years. The E303x is at the right money if all is well.

Agree with Fran too by the way Terry, lovely looking alright.

Hi Simon,

I'm in Copenhagen a for few days and enjoying dropping in to the few high end dealers on my time off. http://www.abaudio.dk carries Sonus Faber and they had a pair of your Elipsa Reds on show. They weren't hooked up and I had to settle for Guarneris! Anyhow, I mentioned to the owner, Alan, that a colleague had bought a pair of Elipsas and was considering moving from valve to solid state amplification. His immediate reaction was that this was a mistake and he then asked which amp(s) you are using. I said Graaf but didn't know the model. He got quite technical and pointed out that Graaf and your Sonus Fabers were not an ideal combination. He appreciated why you would want to change but felt strongly that you stay with valves and is happy to go through the whys and wherefores if you drop him a mail. He carries out all his own mods and repairs so really knows his stuff. Hope this helps.


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Good man Terry, thank you for that! It's great to know that this has become an international effort to find me new amps. TnaHF has spies all over!!

I'll DEFINITELY be trying different valve options too, and especially having read this report. The problem with the GRAAF amps is that output impedance of the otl design is pretty high and not suited to the impedance curve presented by the SFs, so maybe that's what he was talking about? In any case, I think I'll be borrowing Steve's Jadis JA80s at some point to give them a shot, as they make a magnificent sound with his Amati Futuras. That will give a good sense of what we can achieve.

The chase is half the fun anyway, I'm not ready to actually buy new amps yet. I might contact this chap to hey his opinions too.

Thanks again!

Incidentally, how were the Guarneris??

Diapason wrote:The problem with the GRAAF amps is that output impedance of the otl design is pretty high and not suited to the impedance curve presented by the SFs

That's exactly what he referred to Simon. As it happens he had Jadis JA80's sitting just behind the Elipsas. A clue perhaps.

As regards the Guarneri Evolution, I only got to hear one track - Bowies Lazarus on cd. What I heard was very good but not 'wow' nor good enough to warrant spending €11k on top of my own SF's! The most expensive speaker stands in the world?

stop faffing around and borrow Steve's JA80's and job done

You know, Steve's away on holidays and as a consequence I borrowed his Krell cos he wouldn't be using it. I probably should have just taken his entire system...

I'm enjoying many aspects of the solid state experience, though. I like the fact that I don't have to be terrified of a child electrocuting herself for starters.

So as a "brief" update, I took Tony's advice, stopped faffing around and borrowed Steve's JA80s. They are, as we all know, superb amps and they sound wonderful. Probably the best mids and vocals I've heard so far here, very liquid treble, and with a beautiful beguiling sound that's lovely to listen to. Both myself and Steve agreed that they sound magnificent with the Elipsas.

Can you tell there's a "but" coming...? Well there is. For whatever reason, I find myself not *quite* as excited about listening as I was with the Parasound or the Krell, and to my surprise, I don't think the Jadis are quite the slam-dunk I was expecting in this case.

Now, part of this is the switch-on process which means that you need to turn them on 10 or 15 minutes before you're ready to listen, and make that an hour or more if you want them to be at their best. For the most part, I don't have the luxury of time when it comes to listening, and every second counts. Even with previous valve amps where I was used to them coming on song over time, I could at least listen to *something* after only a few seconds. This switch-on process is more messing than I can cope with.

Another aspect is that I think the SFs themselves are providing enough rosiness of their own, and having the sweet valve sound driving them might be too much of a good thing. I should stress that the Jadis amps have no problem driving the ever-living crap out of the speakers, so it's not really a question of that, more that I'm no longer sure I need the calming effect of valves. In fact, showing the woofers who's boss with a few hundred watts of clean power seems to offer more in this case.

Now, one area where the Jadis amps obviously excel is the sense of palpability and realism that I associate with valves, and that's really difficult for me to let go of. I also think there's a certain sparkle that the SS amps don't do so well (note: NOT brightness, more that tinkly sense of air) which really lifts smaller-scale recordings, gives an intimacy to proceedings, and again was one of the things that attracted me to valve sound in the first place. The Jadis have no problems with scale, and while they may not have the muscle of the big American arc-welders, they certainly got the blood flowing when Steve and I played some techno at silly volumes. If it sounds like I'm saying Jadis is pipe n' slippers, well that's definitely not the case. They are, in short, the best I've heard for many aspects of the sound, and aspects that are important to me.

The funny thing is now that I've heard 3 really good options in the power amp arena, all offering something slightly different, all with massive strengths and minor deficiencies. (Oh, as an aside, I also borrowed the Musical Fidelity Nu Vista M3 which Cloney's had in the shop and it wasn't for me at all. Entirely not what I was expecting, almost certainly a system synergy problem, but it just didn't have the magic of the other options. Off the table immediately.) I'm not entirely sure where I'm going from here, but I'm definitely going somewhere. The poor GRAAFs, as much as I love them, just can't play nicely with the SF's impedance dips, so there's a sporting chance they'll be up for sale soon. That's if I can actually bear to part with them, which remains to be seen. I'm trying to be sensible about this, but it's tricky!

So what's next? I dunno, but big muscle is probably still the front-runner for now by a nose. I really wish I could afford Parasound JC1s...

Interesting findings Simon but not surprising really. You always tend to see the bigger SF's partnered with the likes of Krell, Classe, etc. When I was in Cloney's last week I'm sure I saw a monstrous Krell amp in the back room. Parasound have a pretty good rep. I think they are sometimes used in studios from what the Listening Suite guys told me one time.

I totally get what you are saying about the switch on time for the Jadis. Mine is a 2 stage process also and cos I have far less time for listening these days its gonna be a pain when I finally get my new system set up this week.

Sorry guys, been away for a while, tied up with things etc....

I could not agree more about Synergy.

Just one thought... there is a Primare I30 integrated in the second hand section, 100W I believe. It seems good value too and appear well regarded on various forums. Might be worth a test run?