Tír Na HiFi

Marcus wrote:

dhyantyke wrote:Otherwise, thanks for all the feedback.
I am still in experimental mode, having also quarintined the room for one day and restricted listening time over the week: deprivation in this case being good for the stress levels.
I think I am on the way to a solution and will post details when deals are done!!

Looking forward to hearing your update. I hope you enjoy the Classe amps, they certainly get glowing reports with the 802s.

So, deal done with Cloneys for the Classe Monos.
For me there was no doubt that they matched incredibly well with the 802's. I really liked the Lavardin and thought my next upgrade would be to the new Anniversary version of the IT. However over the last few months I could not listen without hearing the 'muddiness' /mixing/ distortion/ ,struggling for a word here, in the lower frequencies. In the end, that was the thing I was hearing most and it was spoiling the listening experience.
Not to critical of the Lavardin, maybe the synergy of my player/room/listening level..
I think what also started happening here was that I started to play music louder and louder as time went on, : this maybe cleaned up the muddiness a bit but added to the 'boom in the room'.
It was getting to the point that I was listening less and less....associating ear popping boom or frustrating lack of clarity/separation in the lower frequencies.
When I (Ivan from cloney) connected the Classes I noticed an immediate change. A definite improvement in the bass. I played a bunch of previously identified bass 'villains' and the improvement was significant.
But it still didn't seem like THE solution.
I had a minor aha! moment (interestingly on a day when I was away from the house/NO listening !!) when I thought that while I was looking at player/amp/speaker/room qualities and interactions, I was leaving out a major variable, which is my self as 'the receiver'.
This brought me back to first principles.
While I was beginning to wonder over the last week or so if I was 'overspeakered', first principles reminded me that I had chosen a pretty beefy floor stander because I like to listen at what to many would seem ridiculously low volume levels. Some of my bass/general discomfort was that somewhere along the line I had increased volume by up to 50% (even at that ,still way below the level Paul (?) suggested of Wadia at 75 and Lavardin at 12 o clock.) In trying to solve one problem or perceived limitation I had created another.
By going back to my original volume level and then playing the villains, I found the true benefit of the Classe's, i.e. the detail and depth of the lower registers was unmistakably there to be heard clearly. No muddiness, no sense of detail being missed or clouded over: sounds in silence.
The full relief of getting through a listening session where the music is the full experience and not simply the framework to focus a 'problem' can be known only to fellow visitors to HIFI purgatory.
So, even though HIFI heaven is not in sight, (there are some questions about the player still,and tweaks to speaker position/mounting,etc), it feels like a big step forward for now.

That sounds good! Congrats on the new purchase.

dhyantyke wrote:So, deal done with Cloneys for the Classe Monos.

Congrats, good purchase. Did you consider using a Resolution Audio Opus 21 CD player [it has an analogue volume control] direct into the Classe monos? Limiting in that it is a single source [two actually if you use the digital input on the Opus 21] system but it works pretty well. Well enough in fact to make you forget all about upgrades and to simply listen to the music on the disks you have. Which always seems a good idea to me......

Rocker wrote:

dhyantyke wrote:So, deal done with Cloneys for the Classe Monos.

Congrats, good purchase. Did you consider using a Resolution Audio Opus 21 CD player [it has an analogue volume control] direct into the Classe monos? Limiting in that it is a single source [two actually if you use the digital input on the Opus 21] system but it works pretty well. Well enough in fact to make you forget all about upgrades and to simply listen to the music on the disks you have. Which always seems a good idea to me......

Thanks for that. I have no knowledge of the Opus 21 except to see very positive reveiws on the forum. If I get the opportunity I would certainly like to try it in my set up, but as I am 'down the country, it's difficult to get that chance.
And, I could't agree more, getting past the technology to just hearing the music is the only game in town for me too.

Diapason wrote:That sounds good! Congrats on the new purchase.

Thanks . I'm very happy with the move forward on the amp, though some player questions still out there. Will post updates if progress is made

dhyantyke wrote: By going back to my original volume level and then playing the villains, I found the true benefit of the Classe's, i.e. the detail and depth of the lower registers was unmistakably there to be heard clearly. No muddiness, no sense of detail being missed or clouded over: sounds in silence.
The full relief of getting through a listening session where the music is the full experience and not simply the framework to focus a 'problem' can be known only to fellow visitors to HIFI purgatory.
So, even though HIFI heaven is not in sight, (there are some questions about the player still,and tweaks to speaker position/mounting,etc), it feels like a big step forward for now.

That's great news! Congratulations on your new purchase, enjoy getting back to the music and away from the distractions. :)

Congrats on the new amps. Glad it has worked out for you and that you can keep your beloved 802's.

DaveF wrote:Congrats on the new amps. Glad it has worked out for you and that you can keep your beloved 802's.

Thanks Dave. I am indeed 'attached' to the 802's..
Now that I have resolved the amp/speaker/room situation satisfactorily, I am back to sorting out the initial 'conundrum' i.e. what source to use with the amps.
The volume control issue with the Wadia (if I discount the internal adjustment in the player which Ivan Cloney discourages) leaves me with the preamp option, as identified by yourself (option 2 in a previous post).
I would love to know what your impression of the CP800 is. I have never had a preamp in any system, being a techno-neanderthal I try to keep things simple. I have been doing a bit of reading about this preamp however and the bass/tone control features are kinda interesting if also a bit concerning about introducing more complication/variables into the picture. What is your experience?

I have been auditioning also the Meridian 808.3 player. My initial impression was that it sounded very muffled and muted in comparison to the Wadia, even when the Wadis was played at very low levels. It didn't seem like a runner.
Then I had a ( obligation free) visit from Darius the turntable/cable guy known to some on the forum. He brought along a selection of cables. This was an eye opener for me, in that I had never experimented with the cable effect. His initial move was to change the interconnects from the Meridian from (entry level) single ended to a pair of his own balanced cables: trying not to sound hyperbolic I must say that the sound was transformed completely. I was taken by surprise that interconnects/mode could make such a difference. It made the 808.3 now a possibility as the sound was much nearer to what I was used to /liked in the Wadia. Clarity etc etc.
Putting the Wadia into the same setup was interesting too as I felt it would not work for extended listening..a bit bright/hard on the head. But not really a fair A/B comparison because the Wadia is still volume/resolution (?) limited, and may well sound a lot better through a decent pair of single eneded interconnects.
InterChanging interconnects gave very clearly changes to bass emphasis and 'position', and I identified one pair that gave a presentation that really did suit me.
We also experimentd with a pair of speaker cables: again the difference here was significant. Darius' cables sounded warm/rounded and very pleasant, but in the end I preferred the clarity of the Nordost SPM Reference when used with the 808.3 and balanced mode.
A very interesting and eye opening sunday afternoon for me and fair play to Darius who was extremely generous with his time and patient with my ignorance!
Currently I am using his interconnects and meridian player/nordost speaker cables to produce a very nice sound indeed.
I am still interested in the possibility of retaining the Wadia: I prefer the remote control/display/interface to the meridian if I could get the sound right. And the build feels somehow more solid than the 808...no plastic.!

Very interesting thread on perhaps my dream speakers, sounds like a hobby in their own right.
Regarding one of the suggestions, i currently have both a resolution audio cd50 and opus 21 which i use directly into my actives without any gain or volume issues.
You would be welcome to try them to see if they solve your source issue.

dhyantyke wrote:I would love to know what your impression of the CP800 is. I have never had a preamp in any system, being a techno-neanderthal I try to keep things simple. I have been doing a bit of reading about this preamp however and the bass/tone control features are kinda interesting if also a bit concerning about introducing more complication/variables into the picture. What is your experience?

I've been travelling recently so sorry I haven't been able to reply sooner.

The CP800 is a fine preamp but I've been using mine in analog bypass mode all the time so I havent had the chance to evaluate the bass/tone controls or digital room correction that it's capable of. In bypass mode, the amp is quite neutral and transparant so if you're looking for any midrange euphonics like you get from valves, you wont find it with this amp. It just passes the signal truthfully, simple as that. For me its a good combo with my speakers as they have plenty of warmth and bloom anyway.
If all goes to plan, I expect to be dropping the CP800 back into Cloney's this Saturday.