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dhyantyke wrote: The Missa Solemnis I find less appealing (especially in comparison for example to Faure's)...in fairness this is probably testament to the genius of both composers to convey their differing theological views & various intentions at time of composing....( I might be getting a bit ahead of myself here)
I'll borrow some vocabulary from the sleeve notes of 'Missa': "music of an all-but-apocalyptic vehemence; sung at a merciless fortissimo; hyperbolic...overwrought" . which capture some of my subjective response, though there is of course more to it than that...

DT

One piece of advice that I would hasten to guard against; do not try to over-analyse or intellectualise music (of any type or genre) especially at this stage of your development. By doing so one may well fall into the trap of going down the road of elitism that we are all condemning here and this can lead to precluding music of certain types or flavours. In the specific case of the Missa Solemnis for example I think that it is probably one of the very finest things that Beethoven wrote.
Music, like all Art, is very subjective I know but its fundamental premise, I hold, is primarily to appeal to the emotions. One has to “Feel” it to like it and that I think will be of paramount importance for someone like you just starting out in determining where to start on a serious route of exploration. Yes you have 1000 year’s worth of music to explore but I would say....Keep It Simple....if you like the sound of it then it is good!! One can explore and analyse later but for the moment just explore as much as possible in order to determine what eras, genres or composers that you like.
Music can be quite a physical enjoyment....satisfy the aural senses with the many delights that await you. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavour and in a perverse way envy you your first discovery of the many delights that no doubt await you.

I take your point entirely: I obviously made a bad job of what I meant to say:
Simply....I have a much more immediate aural/emotional response to Faure's requiem than to Beethoven's M.S.. Any further comment was a convoluted invitation for other suggestions for further listening !

dhyantyke wrote:I take your point entirely: I obviously made a bad job of what I meant to say:
Simply....I have a much more immediate aural/emotional response to Faure's requiem than to Beethoven's M.S.. Any further comment was a convoluted invitation for other suggestions for further listening !

No problem at all and my comment was not meant as any form of criticism but rather, hopefully, by way of clarification and assistance.

Let me ponder your invitation for further listening before I make some recommendations for you.

dhyantyke wrote:What is most resonant of my own experience is the 'over time' element: at times,and certainly I have heard it said by friends also, it can feel that it's too much to take on CM as one will not/ starting 'late', be able to develope any meaningful connection to the music. A discouraging moment!

Forgive me, but this is a little like saying 'I've always wanted to visit every medieval religious ruin in Ireland, but I've left it too late. I'm now in my mid 50's and there are so many of them that I'll never get round them all before I die, so I don't think I'll bother'.

Ciaran has a saying 'Life is short & art is long', meaning that even our Fergus, who starting listening to CM when he was in short trousers, will not be able to get to hear all the music he would wish to during his brief sojourn on this earth, let alone someone like me, who took a Vaughan Williams CD out of the library on my 40th birthday. The point is, it really doesn't matter how far you 'get' or how much of a handle you feel you achieve in understanding it, as long as you enjoy what you hear... and I can promise you, the more you hear, the more you will enjoy, as your investigations take you off in directions you would never have thought possible.

dhyantyke wrote:
Currently on: Not Puccini, admittedly, but marvellous!

now, there in itself is a surprise... yes, it is very beautiful, but it wouldn't have been in a short-list of pieces I'd have given a newbie to try... which goes to show just how diverse CM is, and how our emotion reactions to each piece, differ....

(just don't go rushing headlong into Rachmaninov's Liturgy of St John just yet though... it could frighten off quite a few!)

dhyantyke wrote: The Missa Solemnis I find less appealing (especially in comparison for example to Faure's)...

If Faure's Requiem is a piece you find particularly appealing, then I am quite sure that others here (just about everyone else here apart from me, to be fair) will be more than happy to give you a short list of 'where to next?' recommendations of pieces which might have similarities or connections.... you might initially find that a more preferable way to go, than digging out Victoria's Requiem, for instance. Either way, we're all here to help.

fergus wrote:One piece of advice that I would hasten to guard against; do not try to over-analyse or intellectualise music (of any type or genre) especially at this stage of your development. By doing so one may well fall into the trap of going down the road of elitism that we are all condemning here and this can lead to precluding music of certain types or flavours. In the specific case of the Missa Solemnis for example I think that it is probably one of the very finest things that Beethoven wrote.
Music, like all Art, is very subjective I know but its fundamental premise, I hold, is primarily to appeal to the emotions. One has to “Feel” it to like it and that I think will be of paramount importance for someone like you just starting out in determining where to start on a serious route of exploration. Yes you have 1000 year’s worth of music to explore but I would say....Keep It Simple....if you like the sound of it then it is good!! One can explore and analyse later but for the moment just explore as much as possible in order to determine what eras, genres or composers that you like.
Music can be quite a physical enjoyment....satisfy the aural senses with the many delights that await you. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavour and in a perverse way envy you your first discovery of the many delights that no doubt await you.

characteristically great post, Fergus...

dhyantyke wrote:I take your point entirely: I obviously made a bad job of what I meant to say:
Simply....I have a much more immediate aural/emotional response to Faure's requiem than to Beethoven's M.S.. Any further comment was a convoluted invitation for other suggestions for further listening !

I assume that you have read all of the threads associated with our monthly Listening Project so far. There are some really good works analysed there with lots of food for thought.


PS: I have sent you a PM.

fergus wrote:

dhyantyke wrote:I take your point entirely: I obviously made a bad job of what I meant to say:
Simply....I have a much more immediate aural/emotional response to Faure's requiem than to Beethoven's M.S.. Any further comment was a convoluted invitation for other suggestions for further listening !

I assume that you have read all of the threads associated with our monthly Listening Project so far. There are some really good works analysed there with lots of food for thought.


PS: I have sent you a PM.

I have just started with that. I have been also interested in the "Heart rendingly Gorgeous" thread, especially when some of the works mentioned feature on my own (very) limited CM shelf.!

PM responded to.