Tír Na HiFi

Added a few things to the excel spreadsheet there some upgrades and a downgrade option of ram to 8gb

The motherboard is more expensive but it includes wifi and would be a more complete product if you require built in wifi

The processor just an optional upgrade lower tdp wattage to 55 w over 4000 CPU score

Just some options
I don't believe any of them are a requirement though

Ivor wrote:

tony wrote: Anyway ciunas really very good will post some thoughts on it later in the week. Wonder how it will compare with the meitner? I think it has a fighting chance as the improvements are nice,subtle and add more body to the sound.

That night in The Listening Suite we only heard a few minutes of the JKDac through your laptop and I thought it sounded at least as good as the Meitner. There was a lot of movement and chat going on and I suspect it was missed by most but it could certainly hold it's own that night.

That was the jkdac32 Ivor played through 1 laptop no streaming. The ciunas is better John has just come up with something that is more than a subtle improvement. The meitner on the night was through the zuma. So don't know about it being better it certainly held up against the other 2 expensive dacs. I have the ciunas set up with the zuma I am around the next few days if you want to give it a whirl. You can compare it to a very good cdp to get a comparison.

I had a quick look through the thread and kyrill (think he is in holland) posted last year advising that dedicated pc was the way to go. Kinda sorry I didn't listen and take the advice but still things have developed even more since then.

Would need to hear the meitner again but I was hugely impressed when I originally heard it and thought it was the best sound on the night. I am biased as I was bowled over from the first time I heard it. On the night in question I was thoroughly fed up listening to one John Martyn track so had tuned out by the time the jkdac32 and Fran/JKs usb spacehship entered the proceedings.

Just some options
I don't believe any of them are a requirement though[/quote]

I admire your tenacity on the spec front. I use to have that view when comparing the comfort of my citroen bx suspension against bone shaking mercs. Finally got to sit into a proper merc and even though it was the same road and it is just an engine and collection of parts I realised that ultimately it was a far better car and worked better because the parts are of a higher quality.

Still hope your view is the one that wins out but either all the bodies on CA sites are just adding turbo stickers for the sake of it and are collectively following the wrong path. Still hope to arrange a dac day and it would be nice to have 3 systems ciunas/zuma 2 laptop with ciunas and lower spec pc/streaming set up using a ciunas. Of course the meitner added in would be nice.

So, looking at the spreadsheet there are really only a couple of ways to save money:

mobo - no much saving by picking alternates - so might as well stick with the DH77EB

RAM - differential between 85 down to 50 - but again not massive savings

SSD - recommended drive is same price as any other

picoPSU - logic supply do these with out the linear supply for ~€40.

The place there is savings I think is with the case - provided you can get the same sound with fan operation, or if you choose a low TDP chip and a passive solution. If you are content to build this in an "ordinary" case and spend ~€30 on a heatpipe cooler then good savings available.

Also savings possible with G860 vs i3, i5 and i7 - again provided there is no SQ loss. Costs are from €70 upwards.

I'm leaving out the SotM stuff on purpose here, just as I'm leaving out fancy sata cables and the like.

The only way we'll know is when we compare. I think Johns NUC will answer a lot of questions.


Personally I already have a suitable linear supply, SSD and will make something work in the case. So that leaves mobo, ram, chip, cooler, picoPSU to pony up for.


Fran

Question on the power supply. Linear means a separate supply to each part on the board?
The one priced from the uk about £100 I think that has the linear supply with it? In your case Fran you dont need the linear bit is that correct as well?

Linear = not a switch mode supply. Basically this is an older, less efficient but usually better sounding power supply than switching (often also called SMPS).

The mobo needs a number of voltages: 12V, 5V, 3.3V. The normal power supply in you average PC sends out all those voltages. What the picoPSU does is take a single decent quality 12VDC input (the linear supply) and then has a convertor right on the 24pin plug that goes into the motherboard to give you the other voltages needed. And this new type of power supply is meant to sound better than the regular type.

Its all a bit controversial as apart from the actual power supply, there are loads of other voltage conversions on the mobo, which can't be easily touched.

In my case, I have the block that will give the 12V supply, so I only need to get my hands on the picoPSU (the little yoke that plugs into the mobo).

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Tonight I did a little experiment. I decided to chance disconnecting the fans in my audioPC - one on the processor and one for the case. Unfortunately there is definitely a sound difference with the fans disconnected. More refined and deeper soundstage - mid range clarity I would call it. Now its not a massive difference, but its definitely there. The PC only lasted about 3 mins before the processor started to get very hot (TDP of the P4 is up around 90W).

So it seems it would be worth trying to go fanless if possible. To achieve that you either need to go the streamcom case route, or else be prepared to do a little work with heatpipes I think. I think its doable, but it won't look as sexy as the streamcom. This also makes it very important to get as low a TDP chip as possible - the i3770t is looking like a better choice than ever at 45W, but the i3770s (the zuma option) is a bit higher at 65W.

I think this is significant.


Fran

Well done Fran saves me trying to disconnect the fans in my laptops!
The Plex cases H5 I think is the right one but some use the H3 seem a good option. Same solution as the streacom but a hefty savings on the case. If going the i3-7 route this case seems the compromise to take. Lots of jplay forum guys seem to use these cases. I5 seems to be the minimum I am coming across on the computer geek forums but your logic on the motherboard output is similar to what Chris Connaker wrote about.

I think anything in this space is going to sound similar and whether it be i3 or i7 the difference will be akin to using different cables.

Given up on the dac32 and just listening to the zuma with ciunas. The clock is ticking Pearse is in the air and en route.

I have a bench power supply with two fixed 5V supplies & separate adjustable supply. This could be used to provide all three voltages, 3.3V(using a regulator), 5V & 12V. if you want to borrow this Fran you are welcome & see if it is any different to a Pico PSU?

EdIt: Good experiment, Fran - proves that fanless is one of the sonic ingredients necessary. A fundamental discovery. I was thinking of doing a similar experiment when I get a chance but the next experiment would be to run the fan constantly from a completely different PS i.e preventing it influencing the PS for the main computer. if this works then it opens up a wider choice of cases using a big near-silent fan running continuously!

Thats the next experiment John! Run the fan off a little wallwart as an experiment. Won't be tonight though.

I suppose it might be ok - you can imagine some controller having to pump out the voltage to the fan depending on the temp.


Fran

Fran wrote:Thats the next experiment John! Run the fan off a little wallwart as an experiment. Won't be tonight though.

I suppose it might be ok - you can imagine some controller having to pump out the voltage to the fan depending on the temp.

Fran

I don't think it has to be that complicated - I would forget the controller & use a large silent fan running continuously at whatever rate was sufficient to extract enough heat - no need to vary the speed as long it will take away enough heat when the processor is maximally stressed. Remember we are just using this for audio so it really will NOT vary as much as if we were doing HD video rendering. Need to look back on this thread to find the CPU % usage when in hibernate, if it was given?