Tír Na HiFi

Lovely post Dave.

Dave, your post reflects my own experiences very well, both in terms of the Kharmas themselves and the Leben. As you say, this hifi game is a silly thing at times, and it's possible to really enjoy something while still wondering if you need something else...

What I find most interesting of all in your post is the observation that *valves* seem to have introduced the treble resonance problem, and that good solid-state (and even digital) amps don't display it. I love how much this goes against the conventional wisdom, and while with others you might say "you just haven't heard a good enough valve amp", in your case I don't think that applies!! I wonder what's going on there?

Incidentally, I totally agree that the Kharma monos have a tremendous ability to sound like a "small" amp when they need to, but like a "big" amp when the dynamics kick in. It's a neat trick, and when you add it to the overall cleanness and openness of the sound, it makes for a very unfussed performance that can be a little disarming. As you said yourself, no party tricks, just clean, fast, uncluttered, detailed sound.

I've explained before how much I love my Graafs (and I really really do) but if my budget were unlimited I'd buy a pair of these Kharmas monos too. I'd probably use them a bit more during the summer...

Time for an update.........

For the last 2 days since the Kharma monos arrived I can honestly say that I've had the most satisfying listening sessions in well over a year. The monos are not perfect by any means but they've delivered a sound to my system that I havent come across before. There are 2 things that standout the most:
1. Frequency response.
From top to bottom I dont think I've heard such an even frequency response from any other amplifier before. Bass, midrange & treble, its all there, its very coherent, there is no glare or brightness, no part of the spectrum is emphasised or made to stand out as a party trick. As Simon has already mentioned, its all very clean, very even and completely effortless. I'm sure there are other SS designs out there that can do this but I'd guess that they would come with a rather hefty pricetag.
It differs from the Leben in that there isnt a euphonic midrange or 'velvetness' to the sound but at frequency extremes the monos trounce the Leben by a long way.

2. Flow and micro/big dynamics.
This is a difficult one to put into words. What I found from extended listening sessions was how well the music was flowing along with the monos, how interested they kept me in the music, the little shades in dynamics and texture detail as the music swept along.
With valves in the system I *sometimes* found that I was only interested when the music was happening primarily in the midrange. When it went to the other extremes quickly, I would really miss the speed in dynamic swing and for me this is key as I find that sudden explosion, particularly in classical music, highly engaging.


Now this isn't a pot shot at valve amps, I know people here adore them, but it simply just hasnt been my experience with them to date. And that has been with two different highly regarded speakers, several valve amps on trial, tonnes of cable changes, two completley different listening rooms, the whole experience has left me disappointed. The shortcomings above are in no doubt down to the Lebens low wattage and as glorious as that amp sounds in the midrange, I got that dreaded treble distortion too(but not as bad I had with the ATM2). Treble problems dont normally accompany valves but I've heard distortion in them all in *my system*.

I've no doubt that a HUGE reason for the above issues is down to the Kharma speakers. They are so revealing that I believe that they will highlight any 'oddity' further down the chain and it would seem that the natural distortion that accompany valves is just irritating me. Some will no doubt point out to me that I should change speakers then, but I've heard the Kharmas at their best in other systems and I know without a shadow of a doubt that they are capable of the sound that I want.

The monos this weekend delivered that sound to me in spades and whereas it may not have the midrange magic of the Leben on some recordings, everything else is there and thats what I've been missing to date. Yes the sound could be described as a little on the dry side but I certainly didnt get any brittleness in the sound at all. In fact I now believe that I'm hearing the true character of the Opus 21 player as the Kharma monos will just play exactly what they get in, nothing added as such. A softer and even more rounded CDP might be the way to go eventually.

The crux of the matter is this: With the ATM2 and to a lesser extent the Leben, I was afraid of my system for fear of what all this expensive equipment was going to throw at me today. With the Kharma monos, this has been completely eliminated and I'm eagerly counting down the clock to this evening already!

I've more to say but I think I've waffled enough for now....

Diapason wrote: the observation that *valves* seem to have introduced the treble resonance problem, and that good solid-state (and even digital) amps don't display it.

Just to point out that Class D amps aren't necessarily digital. The Kharma monos are not digital. Class D can sometimes be controlled digitally but not in every case. All down to execution and implementation in the end.

DaveF wrote:

Diapason wrote: the observation that *valves* seem to have introduced the treble resonance problem, and that good solid-state (and even digital) amps don't display it.

Just to point out that Class D amps aren't necessarily digital. The Kharma monos are not digital. Class D can sometimes be controlled digitally but not in every case. All down to execution and implementation in the end.

Duly noted!

Diapason wrote: What I find most interesting of all in your post is the observation that *valves* seem to have introduced the treble resonance problem, and that good solid-state (and even digital) amps don't display it. I love how much this goes against the conventional wisdom, and while with others you might say "you just haven't heard a good enough valve amp", in your case I don't think that applies!! I wonder what's going on there?

I'm hell bent on trying to put a theory or logic to all of this. I despise the notion that 'ah well this is hifi'. Hifi isnt built from elvish material or fairy dust. :-) It should be possible to apply the numbers and specs and figure out why something has a distinctive sound to it, be it a desirable sound or otherwise.

DaveF wrote: I've more to say but I think I've waffled enough for now....

I dunno, I could read this stuff all day!!

Diapason wrote:

DaveF wrote: I've more to say but I think I've waffled enough for now....

I dunno, I could read this stuff all day!!

Dont encourage me!

DaveF wrote: I'm hell bent on trying to put a theory or logic to all of this. I despise the notion that 'ah well this is hifi'. Hifi isnt built from elvish material or fairy dust. :-) It should be possible to apply the numbers and specs and figure out why something has a distinctive sound to it, be it a desirable sound or otherwise.

I also find myself wondering is this something you've heard elsewhere? Am I sitting at home, blissfully unaware of the same problem in my own system (if so I'd like to keep it that way!) Have you heard the same treble issue at Ciaran's?

It's all very interesting, and like you I'd want to get to the bottom of it on some level (although I might not be as persistent...)

DaveF wrote: Dont encourage me!

Well it's genuinely fascinating to me, not least because in our different ways we've had very similar problems with amplification. I *think* that we have similar sonic tastes, we've ended up with similar systems, and have had similar torment. It's interesting to me that the amps you've ended up with are the amps I've enjoyed the most myself in my demoing. I was also so jealous when you bought my then "dream" amp (the Air Tight) that it's fascinating to see how it's all played out since.

Diapason wrote:Have you heard the same treble issue at Ciaran's?

Never heard it at Ciarans but then again I've usually listened to unfamilar music there. Thats said, I'm sure I'd have noticed it as its a physical effect on my ears that I pick up on immediately.
Strangely though, the best I've heard the Kharmas have been at his place and yet they were on the end of a pair of valve amps. (Jadis and ATM3s monos) Perhaps there is the right valve amp out there for me but at the power levels I want for dynamics etc they'll be out of my price range.

Diapason wrote:Well it's genuinely fascinating to me, not least because in our different ways we've had very similar problems with amplification. I *think* that we have similar sonic tastes, we've ended up with similar systems, and have had similar torment. It's interesting to me that the amps you've ended up with are the amps I've enjoyed the most myself in my demoing. I was also so jealous when you bought my then "dream" amp (the Air Tight) that it's fascinating to see how it's all played out since.

Regarding that particular Airtight, yeah it was a pisser alright. I was happy as larry when that graced my rack but you know the rest. It's a fine amp but definitely not the right match for those Kharmas.