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Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:39 pm
by cybot
Ivor wrote:cybot wrote:
Don't know how I missed this! One word "Explain." Very Punk. Very defensive. Not intended to annoy. Only stating a simple fact. Nothing wrong with Punk bands. Right here goes, 1 2 3 4....
"The Ramones were louder, the Pistols nastier, the Clash purer, Nick Lowe more clever, and Wire more violent, but Television was different. Television wasn't a band you could easily copy like the others. There was a complexity in their musical textures that went against the grain of punk at the time. You couldn't just pick up a guitar and play Marquee Moon like you could "12XU" by Wire. To me, they were the first "punk" band that made a truly new and original sound that was also on a high technical and aesthetic level."
Couldn't have put it better myself.....but then again would you consider Television a Punk band?
One listen to Marquee Moon would soon clear that up :-) To me they were genreless, if there's such a word....
I don't know who you're quoting there but they're on a different planet than me.
"You couldn't just pick up a guitar and play Marquee Moon ... " well hundreds of bands in Dublin did and often played it during their live set... many more played it in the garage just for fun. By the time the Marquee Moon single was released in April 1977 punk was already on the wane. Television were only one part of a scene that shaped post-punk pop but that scene included Richard Hell, Blondie, Talking heads and many many more. I'd suggest that Talking heads, and ironically their '77 album, did more to bring a literal intelligence and less predictable musical approach. I'd also suggest that "punk" was really a UK based genre and changed more by UK bands such as Magazine, XTC and even The Stranglers than any American band.
I really can't see how Television "blew Punk to smithereens". Television ran in close parallel with punk... but their paths didn't actually cross. Don't get me wrong.... I love them too.
Thoroughly enjoyed reading that :-) All extremely valid points too with the exception of the quote
"You couldn't just pick up a guitar and play Marquee Moon ... " The important bit you left out was
"like '12x2' by Wire." In other words it was easier to play the Wire song than "Marquee Moon". But......my little smithereens statement was really about the Americanism of English Punk taken to another level. The three chord trick suddenly morphed into something entirely unique especially from the likes of Television.....and others I'm sure. By the way I remember Johnny Rotten saying that Television were terrible live! Whether he was just being rotten or jealous I can't say. Wonder is there any tube footage to prove his point?
Anyway Ivor if you were to recommend 5/10 essential Punk albums from both sides of the pond who would you go for?
Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:50 pm
by cybot
DaveF wrote:cybot wrote:On the pod....listening to Red House on disc four...fifteen minutes and twenty one seconds of something that just cannot be described! Can't wait for the vinyl version so I can hear it as it was meant to be heard :-)
Sounds great Dermot. I'll be keeping an eye out for this too.
I've just started listening to the second disc and, well, as a serious Jimi afficiando, I'm completely blown away. On headphones mind; An unbelievable 15 minutes plus "Are You Experienced", another "Red House" stunner and God only knows how much more musical Ecstasy I can take as more and more gems sail between my ears ;-) One thing I will say. This is most definitely not for the fainthearted and will probably be the last Jimi Hendrix you'll ever need.....yeah, it's that good. But....don't ignore "In The West" which is also on the racks for the very first time on CD and is also coming out on double vinyl for the first time too - the original was a gatefold single vinyl set. I also note that his definitive version of "Red House" is properly devoted to one whole side - I can't recall where it was recorded San Diego Sports Arena maybe?
Edit: Next time you're in Easons have a look at the last page in Hi-Fi Plus :-)
Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:53 pm
by Ivor
cybot wrote: I remember Johnny Rotten saying that Television were terrible live! Whether he was just being rotten or jealous I can't say. ......
Anyway Ivor if you were to recommend 5/10 essential Punk albums from both sides of the pond who would you go for?
I wouldn't take anything JR says too seriously, he's a very mischievous shit stirrer.
I've been thinking about "essential Punk albums " but I wouldn't know where to start. Iggy & The Stooges "Raw Power" and "Fun House" predated punk but was a major part of it... as was MC5's Kick out the Jams. The Clash's "London Calling" was 1979. Certainly post punk and yet relevant.
I suppose The Clash (debut), Sex Pistols "Never Mind the Bollocks", Husker Du "Zen Arcade" ('84), Stiff Little Fingers "Inflammable Material", The Ramones, Dead Kennedys "Plastic Surgery Disaters", Wire "Pink Flag", XTC "This is Pop", Siouxsie & The Banshees "The Scream", Richard Hell & The Voidoids "Blank Generation", The Fall "Live at Witch Falls", Slaughter & The Dogs "Do it dog style".... I could go on but then I'm not sure what punk is/was anymore. I wasn't sure then even though I (apparently) played in quite a few!
Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:09 pm
by cybot
Ivor wrote:cybot wrote: I remember Johnny Rotten saying that Television were terrible live! Whether he was just being rotten or jealous I can't say. ......
Anyway Ivor if you were to recommend 5/10 essential Punk albums from both sides of the pond who would you go for?
I wouldn't take anything JR says too seriously, he's a very mischievous shit stirrer.
I've been thinking about "essential Punk albums " but I wouldn't know where to start. Iggy & The Stooges "Raw Power" and "Fun House" predated punk but was a major part of it... as was MC5's Kick out the Jams. The Clash's "London Calling" was 1979. Certainly post punk and yet relevant.
I suppose The Clash (debut), Sex Pistols "Never Mind the Bollocks", Husker Du "Zen Arcade" ('84), Stiff Little Fingers "Inflammable Material", The Ramones, Dead Kennedys "Plastic Surgery Disaters", Wire "Pink Flag", XTC "This is Pop", Siouxsie & The Banshees "The Scream", Richard Hell & The Voidoids "Blank Generation", The Fall "Live at Witch Falls", Slaughter & The Dogs "Do it dog style".... I could go on but then I'm not sure what punk is/was anymore. I wasn't sure then even though I (apparently) played in quite a few!
Another enjoyable piece from a veteran of the Punk Wars :-) I only have three left out of the 8 essentials you mentioned above. I didn't do too bad, did I? Anyway no way could an essential list could be written in stone as moods change from day to day. But as it stands it's good enough for today....Thanks for taking the time Ivor. Oh, I've suddenly realised, where's the Undertones ;-))))))) See what I mean.....
Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:34 pm
by Ivor
cybot wrote: Oh, I've suddenly realised, where's the Undertones ;-))))))) See what I mean.....
Exactly. I love them but are they anything more than a great pop band with social sensibilities? What of The Pogues? The Radiators from Space? Paranoid Visions?
Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:27 am
by cybot
Ivor wrote:cybot wrote: Oh, I've suddenly realised, where's the Undertones ;-))))))) See what I mean.....
Exactly. I love them but are they anything more than a great pop band with social sensibilities? What of The Pogues? The Radiators from Space? Paranoid Visions?
Deftly put :-)
Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:09 pm
by cybot
Still listening, still dreaming....this version of Like A Rolling Stone completely obliterates the Monterey version.....
Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:21 pm
by DaveF
Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:26 am
by cybot
A new vinyl one (from Tower and on prominent display inside the door) from an Irish guy....see review below. I'm liking it.....very much. It's a thing of beauty with it's gorgeous gatefold sleeve.
http://soundcloud.com/tracks/search?q%5 ... ration%5D= Listen here....
http://raritiesandb-sides.blogspot.com/ ... ugent.html - An interview...
Cian Nugent - Doubles
Pitchfork review: 8/10
Versatility is prized among instrumentalists. From Nashville country sessions to New York improvisational explorations, the player who can play it all is the player who will likely have gigs. For instance, while cellist Erik Friedlander has played with John Zorn's Masada Chamber Ensemble and with reed adventurer Ned Rothenberg, he's also worked with Korn, Kelly Clarkson, and the Mountain Goats. While Colin Stetson's star is rising with his new solo opus, New History Warfare Vol. 2: Judges, he's long kept busy with bands from Bon Iver and the National to Angélique Kidjo and Arcade Fire. This is true for guitar soloists, too, but in this realm, the mastery of multiple forms seems to have less to do with a paycheck and more to do with proving you're more than some new-school John Fahey acolyte. From Sir Richard Bishop's pan-everything albums to William Tyler's expansive Behold the Spirit, some of the best guitar music being made right now is that which takes the world in and sounds it back out through a pair of busy hands.
Thankfully, no one bothered to tell young Irish guitarist Cian Nugent about that approach: His first widely available album, Doubles, comprises two side-length tracks that take definitive and defined approaches the distance. There's no emphasis on how much he can do or how much he has studied his forebears; instead, he smartly focuses on developing a pair of immersive environments that are continuously compelling for more than 20 minutes at a time. He nails it. The first side, "Peaks & Troughs", is an ambitious solo workout for guitar and, eventually, synthesizer. As its name suggests, the tune rises to loud, heavy strums and falls to near-silent picking. A more accurate title might have been "Knots & Threads", as Nugent's emphasis seems to be on the horizontal orientation of his music-- that is, the volume matters less than the way he arranges and links his phrases. At points, his hands are busy wrangling great messes of notes that eventually thin out into beautiful and relatively simple statements of melody. Sometimes, though, Nugent is content to examine one note or chord until it resolves into silence, as if he's staring at a huge, tangled ball of yarn but concentrating only on a small, isolated knot somewhere near the middle. That movement creates an inescapable momentum, meaning that, when this track starts, Nugent's deliberately dynamic approach makes it hard to ignore.
That same kinetic energy applies to the grand and arching "Sixes & Sevens", a piece that Nugent developed with a large ensemble of friends playing drums, strings, horns, and keys. A piece of quiet triumph, "Sixes & Sevens" builds around the obvious, continuous guitar line that runs throughout its 24 minutes. Nugent tucks the revelation that he's been listening to music beyond past masters of instrumental guitar into those near-orchestral flourishes. He hints at a free-jazz maelstrom one moment, eerie organ drone music the next; much later, there's a touch of shoegaze rock thanks to some long-tone distortion and a bit of Japanese minimalism via the restraint of the percussion. The perfectly ebullient passages are a mix of Stravinsky, hard bop, and unrepentant pop; given its redemptive sound, it's where the listener finally understands that versatility is something the young Nugent values, too.
If Doubles has a fault, it's that Nugent makes no attempt to hide his influences or to do something they haven't previously done. This is, after all, a form that has often been beleaguered by its own reverence and subservience to idols; its recent renaissance, however, suggests the time for showing you can do what someone else once did has begun to recede. Fahey, Rose, Jones, Blackshaw-- all of the top-shelf names in this realm have gone for extended ruminations in the vein of "Peaks & Troughs". And Jim O'Rourke stands as the acknowledged master of epics such as "Sixes & Sevens", which rise steadily and delicately to glorious but restrained crescendos. Nugent doesn't reinvent either idea on Doubles, but he doesn't have to; he's inarguably mastered them and made them his own, and that's enough for a start.
Re: Rock - what are you listening to?
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:48 pm
by DaveF
on the TT...
