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Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:30 pm
by Ivor
jkeny wrote:Ivor wrote:At some stage I'll run this thread through Google Translate.
:) it's like an IT convention around here
I
do speak geek (ex-programmer/systems analyst here!) But it seems new jargon is being invented everyday... anyway... carry on... I'l leap in near the end. Assuming I recogise the end coming.
Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:38 pm
by jkeny
Ivor wrote:
I do speak geek (ex-programmer/systems analyst here!) But it seems new jargon is being invented everyday... anyway... carry on... I'l leap in near the end. Assuming I recogise the end coming.
Ah, yes, I forgot about your past geekdomness.
Well, it's at the end - next step is: my Intel NUC PC will be compared against Pearse's Zuma & we will get an idea of the playing field. The NUC will be actively cooled (for the moment) & the Zuma passive so we will also get a handle on this factor & it's importance.
Edit: Is that the end or just the beginning ?
Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:41 pm
by Fran
It will be interesting to see how it compares to the zuma, but I don't think it will sound poor. The sound I'm getting from the POS audiopc I'm currently using is really good. Yours can't be worse.
Lots of good reasons to go for the nuc too - the small form factor would be a good benefit for one thing.
Fran
Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:04 pm
by nige2000
tony wrote:nige2000 wrote:You seem set on getting the exact items on the Zuma build which is fine but it will cost extra and if your looking for a specific motherboard and you can buy it reasonable money order it, it can get very difficult to find these rare boards.Most of these good mboards are made by Foxconn for other manufacturers and once they have the right CPU chipset z77 h77 third generation ivy bridge chipset I can't see them been any different to your intel board.
Nige the mobo seems to be available at circa €100 everywhere.Not sure are you saying buy this now as it might become scarce? Trying not to besotted by the zuma but the sq was stunning and I would be nervous about following another receipe without hearing it first. Simply because I am fearful of ending up with something that doesnt quiet deliver and needing to go again(false economy and all that). I very much hope that this view is bonkers. Obviously at this moment in time the chip and the case are the showstoppers as they swallow €600. That pricing level may change but at this moment in time any i7 chip is just too expensive.
You guys are more technically competent than me I am just approaching it subjectively. Leaving out the case and chip all the other components I think are bringing something to the party(Happy to leave out the sotm usb) So I think they will all be required no matter what build of pc. Based on that the max that can be shaved off is €3-400 (sizeable amount). So I see the risk cost as €400. Of course if Johns nuc knocks the socks off the zuma next week or whenever great that is €600 difference.
John are you not going for the noise filter? Is it because it will not fit or you just dont think it is necessary.
Are you guys saying the zuma cant be upgraded as the mobo is welded to the case?
I seem to be communicating very badly
8 gab ram for nuc is less than 50 euro on komplett with free delivery
Think the i7 is too expensive for this project too that's why I suggested the intel g860
If you we're to make the nuc fanless, not that I'm sure it's necessary
it will cost the same as my build which is more upgradable even with the damn expensive case and sotm filter
But the nuc is a good option for a very small build nearly fits in the palm of your hand
Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:14 pm
by Ken Moreland
I think Nige's point questioning the need for fanless is important . In a 2PC situation the Audio PC is probably placed somewhere near the audio gear where the fan is inaudible but the streamer/control PC is probably beside the listener in many cases and the fan is whirring away merrily.
KM
Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:23 pm
by nige2000
Ken Moreland wrote:I think Nige's point questioning the need for fanless is important . In a 2PC situation the Audio PC is probably placed somewhere near the audio gear where the fan is inaudible but the streamer/control PC is probably beside the listener in many cases and the fan is whirring away merrily.
KM
Only thing is that the smaller fans are usually louder as they have to run harder
We won't know till john gets it up and running
I used to find my main PC loud, that's why I went fanless great job
Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:57 pm
by tony
Where are you with that build Nige?
My belief was that the fan introduced noise into the dac stream The whole idea of getting rid of it was for that reason.Is that incorrect?.
The ac regenerator I am using has an audible fan but unless you are beside it there is no issue with it. But that is disconnected from the audio chain so I dont have a problem with it. Just wonder is it the fan in the laptop that causes a lot of issues
Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:04 pm
by jkeny
There's one other thing to bear in mind about fans - they are electrically noisy, & they vary with temperature, going faster & slower. This varying electrical current draw is not the sort of pollution we want in the PC audio environment. When Jplay goes to great trouble to keep the environment as unperturbed as possible.
Yes, Tony, that's my understanding too. But the thing that has to be answered is whether the other electrical pollutants in the PC are enough to mask any effect that the fan might have?
Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:09 pm
by nige2000
tony wrote:Where are you with that build Nige?
My belief was that the fan introduced noise into the dac stream The whole idea of getting rid of it was for that reason.Is that incorrect?.
The ac regenerator I am using has an audible fan but unless you are beside it there is no issue with it. But that is disconnected from the audio chain so I dont have a problem with it. Just wonder is it the fan in the laptop that causes a lot of issues
I'll be going fanless when I do go removes one possible factor
In New York for another week so I didn't bother ordering anything as yet
and probably will be next month when I take the plunge
its hard to have money for everything
Re: Build a dedicated Audio PC
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:11 pm
by jkeny
The other thing about a low power PC (low TPD) is that it makes passive cooling somewhat easier. I haven't done the thermal calculations but I'm looking at putting something like a NUC & a DAC (& maybe an amp) in it's own case with a couple of copper blocks attached to the case acting as CPU & GPU thermal sinks. I believe this was hinted at some posts back?
The Zuma is overkill thermally for the heat it has to dissipate (it never gets warm, I believe?) so purely as an AudioPC, with no other function, the NUC could be cased in a far wider selection of cases, some probably more "audiophile" looking?