Tír Na HiFi

dhyantyke wrote: For various reasons, it is only in my mid/late fifties that I have the opportunity/time/resources to explore and enjoy music (of any type) in any depth. With CM, I find some of it I love, lots of it I don't like/understand/appreciate. I had considered this forum a place where someone with as little knowledge as myself but a certain openness might ask a question or follow a lead: indeed this has been my experience(as above)
I was a bit defensive at the thought that my/similar attempts from a position of ignorance and naivety might be a source of 'amazement'.....but maybe I got the wrong end of the stick...

I think that you may know by now that this is not a place where we look down on anybody with "amazement" due to their relative inexperience in the field of Classical Music and I would be extremely disappointed if anyone got even the most vague sense of eliteism around here. They are a fine bunch of "ordinary" people here who will do their best if they can to help people and try to steer them in the right direction. I think the responses so far are fair testement to that.
Even though I have been listening for more years than I care to remember I can still empathise with someone who is still at the early stages. I would concur with all of the suggestions that the lads have made already. I would also encourage you to ask as many questions as possible. You will not find any answers if you do not ask the questions. Another reason that I would encourage this is that it challanges us to sometimes look again at works or composers in a new light so we too have a lot to gain from questions. The thread system is excellent for this in that it (mostly) focuses people's attention on a single thing and allows us to tease out issues.
If you are really serious another, and probably the best way, is to ask people if you can visit for a listening session if there is something that you specifically want to hear. People in my experience are very accomodating in this way and it makes the whole thing more personal and social. Just don't ask Jared....he has to move soon LOL!!!

One should never feel a sense of isolation around here. There is lots of help and assistance out there but one needs to look for it. I hope that you have received lots of encouragement so far to help you to pursue further our lovely hobby. I wish you well in that pursuit and if there is anything that I can do to help you please ask.

I have been occupied today with only intermittent access to the computer, so apologies for the delay in responding to all your replies which are greatly appreciated.
The genuine openness and generosity in tone and content are what I had come to regard as 'the norm' on the forum, hence my Genuine Puzzlement at the original post. I just didn't 'get it'.
I understand Diapason's subsequent context offered for the remark in relation to fashion, and have my own levels of amazement at some/many aspects of mass culture and fashion trends.
(I have no knowledge of 'Shades of Grey' or whatever, but get the general point)

I hope to return to the individual posts over the next short while, replying individually.
Thanks.

Diapason wrote:Yes, and with my moderator hat on, I'd have to say that any post that smacks of looking down on another poster's knowledge (or even taste) will probably be deleted, or at the very least flagged as unacceptable round here. That's not how we roll!

I can see our Simon is getting his sharp, pointy stick out and giving it a polish...

dhyantyke wrote:I hope to return to the individual posts over the next short while, replying individually.

as long as you do it whilst listening to some Puccini... ;-))

Jared wrote:^^

firstly, I think I would echo the views of everyone from the CM dept, when I say a big 'thank you!' for your honesty in writing the above post.

Appreciated !

It is undeniable that Classical Music has garnered a rather elitist reputation in some quarters, which we all feel is regrettable

Indeed !

because what is broadly lumped together today as 'classical' really encompases over 800 years of the development of music within the Western sphere, which should as a consequence be accessible for everyone.

This is an interesting thought: though it should be obvious of course, (when feeling overwhelmed 'thought' gets tends to get knobbled!), but it does refer to the enormity of the edifice of CM to someone approaching from the outside :
the image that comes to my mind is of the massive church at Albi in the south of France..........built on a rise it can be seen from an impossible distance, brooding over the countryside. While built in part for devotional reasons and is astonishingly beautiful both within and outside, it certainly had a role in striking awe into the population and was a statement of the authority and power of the church of Rome.(ref: The Albigensian Crusade) By the time midieval man got to the door, mind was scrambled, a process completed by the amazing, uplifting but also terrifying artwork/iconography within.
The connection might be tenuous, but I do like that church!

because they have over time developed a deep seated love for it and enjoy the company of others who feel the same.

What is most resonant of my own experience is the 'over time' element: at times,and certainly I have heard it said by friends also, it can feel that it's too much to take on CM as one will not/ starting 'late', be able to develope any meaningful connection to the music. A discouraging moment!
The discouraging moment can be prolonged in, for example, exploring areas which have little emotional appeal/aesthetic satisfaction...for whatever reason.
The appeal of CM is for the most part a 'slower burn', possibly less immediately gratifying than other forms( I wonder about this having written it)
I find myself eventually coming back, seeking another toehold!

As a consequence, I have grown up listening to Rock music with a particular liking for Progressive Rock of the Genesis, Yes & Marillion kind,

ditto!

While writing I have the thought 'what am I trying to communicate' ?!
I think trying to explore why so (relatively) few find their way to an appreciation of CM, which was the basis of Diapason's original post!!
I don't propose the 'reasons' offered are 'reasonable' (!) or rational, but little response to Art is limited to the reasonable or rational(T.G.)

as long as you do it whilst listening to some Puccini... ;-))

[/quote]

Currently on: Not Puccini, admittedly, but marvellous!

Jared wrote:

dhyantyke wrote:For various reasons, it is only in my mid/late fifties that I have the opportunity/time/resources to explore and enjoy music (of any type) in any depth. With CM, I find some of it I love, lots of it I don't like/understand/appreciate...

what we have all tended to find is that with the passing of time, as we become more familiar with a certain soundworld, the boundaries expand somewhat, so that material you once found fairly impenetrable becomes increasingly more accessible as you begin to understand it.

and

because although German lieder (songs) are magnificent, they are a long way from the soundworld we normally inhabit and therefore require a certain amount of acclimatisation.

yes, great point and well put........I have been noticing,with some satisfaction (!), that slowly 'getting my ear in' to different types of music has been a developing process which is expanding the possibilities of appreciation/enjoyment, and an 'antidote' to the bouts of discouragement/apathy which also arise(previous post)
I am in a similar process with the world of jazz..

So, to your first sentence. Everyone here will agree in unison that there has never been a better time than now to embark on a voyage of discovery of all things classical, as access to the medium has never been more open! It was only 10 years ago that single disks by top artists were uniformly selling for £13 each, making the building of a library a somewhat middle-class occupation, however with the advent of the intrawebz, you can listen to a wide selection of works on Youtube before purchasing a disk for less than half the amount stated above... CM has never been more blue-collar!

Right on again..........my very limited stash has some cd's which cost 17 irish pounds...a huge cost at the time. Music is so much more affordable now, AND, there's Zoverstocks

Jared wrote:my final post for you will be 'where to start?'

I guess this will be the most contentious aspect, because everyone will have their own views on this depending on their interests, so I will keep it based on my personal experiences.

I think many people tend to initiate themselves by listening to orchestral music first, because there is an irony that the more instruments playing, the easier it is to get a handle on the shape of the music. after a broad brushstroke intro across basic orchestral repertoire, people often then gravitate to signature chamber pieces (music typically written for 2-8 instruments), before gravitating to Instrumental music (such as piano sonatas or cello suites) where higher levels of concentration are (in my own experience) required.

My experience with choral music has been similar; I started with larger scale choral works, then oratorios (combination of choir and soloists) before moving on to the single voice. I noticed in your post that you expressed an enjoyment of some choral works, so I will give you a very short list of 5 works to try out, to see whether they chime with you:

Victoria: Requiem
Pergolesi: Stabat Mater
Handel: Dixit Dominus
Mozart: Requiem
Beethoven: Missa Solemnis

Now, I'm sure you'll appreciate that if you asked everyone on this forum to name 5 choral works for you to investigate, you'd get very few duplications... the same would go for Orchestral, Chamber, Instrumental, Song and indeed Opera! It would therefore be my suggestion that you started your own listening thread in the forum, jotted down your thoughts and asked the forum members to give you 'Where to Next'? suggestions... I'm sure everyone would be delighted to help.

Best Wishes

Jared

Again, very interesting to hear your experience and food for thought in terms of orientating to the subject.

The five works to try out; Mozart's Requiem has been a regular

The Missa Solemnis I find less appealing (especially in comparison for example to Faure's)...in fairness this is probably testament to the genius of both composers to convey their differing theological views & various intentions at time of composing....( I might be getting a bit ahead of myself here)
I'll borrow some vocabulary from the sleeve notes of 'Missa': "music of an all-but-apocalyptic vehemence; sung at a merciless fortissimo; hyperbolic...overwrought" . which capture some of my subjective response, though there is of course more to it than that...

The other works will be new ground to look forward to.

The idea of starting a thread had not occurre to me, sounds like a good one....
Thanks again for all your input!

DT

fergus wrote:

dhyantyke wrote: For various reasons, it is only in my mid/late fifties that I have the opportunity/time/resources to explore and enjoy music (of any type) in any depth. With CM, I find some of it I love, lots of it I don't like/understand/appreciate. I had considered this forum a place where someone with as little knowledge as myself but a certain openness might ask a question or follow a lead: indeed this has been my experience(as above)
I was a bit defensive at the thought that my/similar attempts from a position of ignorance and naivety might be a source of 'amazement'.....but maybe I got the wrong end of the stick...

I would also encourage you to ask as many questions as possible. You will not find any answers if you do not ask the questions. Another reason that I would encourage this is that it challanges us to sometimes look again at works or composers in a new light so we too have a lot to gain from questions. The thread system is excellent for this in that it (mostly) focuses people's attention on a single thing and allows us to tease out issues.

Point taken & Thanks for that invitation : the thread idea had not occurred to me

One should never feel a sense of isolation around here. There is lots of help and assistance out there but one needs to look for it. I hope that you have received lots of encouragement so far to help you to pursue further our lovely hobby. I wish you well in that pursuit and if there is anything that I can do to help you please ask.

How thoughtful and insightful..........the notion that one's ignorance might be a source of 'amazement' (as per my initial posts) , is certainly a thought that leads to withdrawal and a sense of alienation...
Thanks to all posters offering assistance/inclusion!

Seán wrote:

dhyantyke wrote:I was a bit defensive at the thought that my/similar attempts from a position of ignorance and naivety might be a source of 'amazement'.....but maybe I got the wrong end of the stick...

Definitely not, Jared, Darren and I have only recently started listening to Classical Music. I can trace my start back to August 2007 when I bought the Stravinsky 22 cd set and I have never looked back ever since.

The world of recorded classical music is massive and I think that one gains greatly from joining a forum like this one and asking questions, that's how I got started, by doing so it enables one to build a music collection based on the advice that one receives from fellow members; what brings us all here is a love of music and the willingness to share our passion with those who have the patience to read what we write about it. If we disagree with what a fellow member says we will always treat them with courtesy too.

Please do not hesitate to ask any questions you may have no matter how basic they may seem to you at the time, that's how I got started, not here but on CMG (but that's another story).

thanks for the response & encouragement / advice