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Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:37 pm
by Aleg
cvrle59 wrote: ...
I guess you notice my effort on Naim's forum too. I may be crazy, but I feel bad for the people spending so much money on their stuff feeding it with poor players.
I'm expecting that some of them will start investigating what's going on here. This "new wave" is way more attractive with all nice features beside excellent SQ.
I always felt for them it was about comfort and easy to use first, and best sound quality only second.

But I can imagine with LMS based playback and the quality of this new modded player, it might be able to persuade some of them to have a go. But on the other hand many, many are Apple Mac users who won't benefit. They haven't understood yet that Macs are not to be used, but to be looked at. :-()
Windows is for people who like to have things working.

Oooooh did I say that? -:() LOL

Cheers

Aleg

Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:59 pm
by cvrle59
Aleg wrote:
cvrle59 wrote: ...
I guess you notice my effort on Naim's forum too. I may be crazy, but I feel bad for the people spending so much money on their stuff feeding it with poor players.
I'm expecting that some of them will start investigating what's going on here. This "new wave" is way more attractive with all nice features beside excellent SQ.
I always felt for them it was about comfort and easy to use first, and best sound quality only second.

But I can imagine with LMS based playback and the quality of this new modded player, it might be able to persuade some of them to have a go. But on the other hand many, many are Apple Mac users who won't benefit. They haven't understood yet that Macs are not to be used, but to be looked at. :-()
Windows is for people who like to have things working.

Oooooh did I say that? -:() LOL

Cheers
Aleg
LOL!

Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:03 pm
by Aleg
sbgk wrote:
John Dot wrote:
Many combinations now but mqn 2.73 448 intel raw background still sounds best to me (amount of micro details).
Your tweaked LMS sounds very, very good and analogue but lacks some details on highs.
or mqn 2.73 448 intel raw background is noisier and you think you are hearing more detail ?

shall see if putting it on it's own core improves things. Have you tried it with mmcss disabled.
Hi Gordon

You have used the 'mistake noise for detail'-argument twice now, so now I feel I have to respond. ;-)

I don't completely agree with your statement about noise vs detail.
What I have noticed is that (some versions of) some players are not showing microdetails esp in bass regions and upper high regions.

E.g. I notice that in cello recordings where deep baas notes are played, some cannot reproduce the vibrations of the wood of the cello. These vibrations are low signal level and each on its own of very short duration. Also in piano playing esp in close miked recordings, you can hear overtones, i.e. higher order harmonics of the note but again of lower signal level, and intermodulations with other nearby strings/frequencies giving life to the tone of a piano.

It is my opinion, that when a player is not functioning optimally, especially with respect to absolute correct timing, these microdetails get lost in the resulting more 'woolly' character of the not exactly timed bass notes. So the bass may be there and may be deep, but if it is not sharply timed or not so well controled it is the low level microdetails that get lost.

One of the pro audio people, forgot his name, once said "jitter equals less detail" and "the more detail you can hear in a signal, the less jitter is present". Now I don't want to misuse the overly applied jitter argument, but I just want to show that the more detail can be heared the better the signal representation is. Some quotes in this context (from http://www.jitter.de/english/soundfr.html )

"2) "Less jitter" sounds better, much better!
- improved ease of listening
- increased clarity
- improved high frequency response
- better instrument separation
- more information
- better timing
- better soundstage
- improved overall audio performance"

And

"You may identify the frequency of the tone but you are not able to hear whats inside the tone. Then remove the jitter and the same tone becomes extremely defined, clear and airy. You will hear a wealth of details that was covered before."


Now I agree with you that high frequency noise can define a sound more sharply, give it a clearer edge, but that is when it becomes edgy, harsh, 'digital-sounding'.
Also sharp transients in music and microdetails, require high frequencies in a signal and make it sound better defined, with more microdetails and gives it longer decays consisting of low signal levels. But all this requires exceptional timing of a signal (a level I say MQn wasapi had reached in a well optimised system) and also low noise signal processing (as we try to achieve with all hardware, software and operating system based optimisations).

So not all details are just caused by noise IMHO.

Just my thoughts for two cents :-)

Cheers

Aleg

Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:14 pm
by jesuscheung
buffer size = 448 always less details for me. tested with lekt, foobar, mqn, asio4all etc

it is dac dependent i think. think some dac likes 448.

some DAC gives best detail at 160, 320, 640... for example, my onboard realtek dac, audiofire etc
my soundcard gives best detail at 352, 704...

believe that sbgk's dac likes 256, 512, 1024, 2048...

think 1024 is most 'likable'. never bad for anyone.

Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:17 pm
by nige2000
Aleg wrote:
cvrle59 wrote: ...
I guess you notice my effort on Naim's forum too. I may be crazy, but I feel bad for the people spending so much money on their stuff feeding it with poor players.
I'm expecting that some of them will start investigating what's going on here. This "new wave" is way more attractive with all nice features beside excellent SQ.
I always felt for them it was about comfort and easy to use first, and best sound quality only second.

But I can imagine with LMS based playback and the quality of this new modded player, it might be able to persuade some of them to have a go. But on the other hand many, many are Apple Mac users who won't benefit. They haven't understood yet that Macs are not to be used, but to be looked at. :-()
Windows is for people who like to have things working.

Oooooh did I say that? -:() LOL

Cheers

Aleg
ah now that was mean

Mac's do lots of things well (including lightening of the wallet )
unfortunately audio is no longer one of them by along shot

Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:48 pm
by sbgk
MQn was noisy due to using wasapi, haven't listened to this long enough, but so far it is enjoyable to listen to, if not the last word in hifi. Hopefully there is more to discover/uncover.

As it is still very much in the testing/dev stage I am happy to keep it amongst those that can install it on their own.

There is something about the original unoptimised version which I liked, so need to find the setting that removes some of the dynamics.

Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:27 pm
by nige2000
sbgk wrote:MQn was noisy due to using wasapi, haven't listened to this long enough, but so far it is enjoyable to listen to, if not the last word in hifi. Hopefully there is more to discover/uncover.

As it is still very much in the testing/dev stage I am happy to keep it amongst those that can install it on their own.

There is something about the original unoptimised version which I liked, so need to find the setting that removes some of the dynamics.
noticed a small loss of dynamics alright,
wasapi 2.7x has a more dynamic range

what additional settings are you using?

early days and very promising stuff

Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:03 pm
by Aleg
sbgk wrote:MQn was noisy due to using wasapi, haven't listened to this long enough, but so far it is enjoyable to listen to, if not the last word in hifi. Hopefully there is more to discover/uncover.

As it is still very much in the testing/dev stage I am happy to keep it amongst those that can install it on their own.

There is something about the original unoptimised version which I liked, so need to find the setting that removes some of the dynamics.
Gordon

Noticed my TimerResolution has changed from my prefered 2 ms to 1 ms.
Is this something SqueezeLite does or might it have been set by AudioPhil's Optimiser?

Cheers

Aleg

Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:21 pm
by sbgk
Aleg wrote:
sbgk wrote:MQn was noisy due to using wasapi, haven't listened to this long enough, but so far it is enjoyable to listen to, if not the last word in hifi. Hopefully there is more to discover/uncover.

As it is still very much in the testing/dev stage I am happy to keep it amongst those that can install it on their own.

There is something about the original unoptimised version which I liked, so need to find the setting that removes some of the dynamics.
Gordon

Noticed my TimerResolution has changed from my prefered 2 ms to 1 ms.
Is this something SqueezeLite does or might it have been set by AudioPhil's Optimiser?

Cheers

Aleg
you could try renaming squeezelite and pa dll then set your clock to 2 and restart lms to see if it is lms or squeezelite that changes it to 1

Re: MQN

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:28 pm
by Aleg
sbgk wrote:
Aleg wrote:
sbgk wrote:MQn was noisy due to using wasapi, haven't listened to this long enough, but so far it is enjoyable to listen to, if not the last word in hifi. Hopefully there is more to discover/uncover.

As it is still very much in the testing/dev stage I am happy to keep it amongst those that can install it on their own.

There is something about the original unoptimised version which I liked, so need to find the setting that removes some of the dynamics.
Gordon

Noticed my TimerResolution has changed from my prefered 2 ms to 1 ms.
Is this something SqueezeLite does or might it have been set by AudioPhil's Optimiser?

Cheers

Aleg
you could try renaming squeezelite and pa dll then set your clock to 2 and restart lms to see if it is lms or squeezelite that changes it to 1
Yep, it's SqueezeLite-win.exe. At the moment the player is switched on in the controler interface, the TimerResolution is going to 1ms.

Is that something you could turn off, or maybe make configurable with an additional parameter?

Cheers
Aleg