Tír Na HiFi

nige2000 wrote:For some reason im dying to say IPOD...

The problem with one box solutions can be that they can compromise on components/power supplies for their small form factor, potential for cross contamination of emi/rfi
the more high quality linears to separate components the merrier

im sure it could be done though, if no sacrifices are made and is well shielded and grounded,

maybe sort of a box full of little boxes for each section

Ah, yes the XXhighend NOS1 DAC.
Yes, agreed there are issues to be dealt with in a one box solution but these are under the control of the manufacturer whereas multibox system needs to be able to handle all the varieties/qualities of connections made between the boxes i.e the manufacturer has no control over this.

Also using short connections for high-speed signals is seems to be a good idea, in my opinion - it avoids all sorts of issues - examples include USB adapters instead of USB cable; I2S short connection; SPDIF short connection.

nige2000 wrote:did none of the computer audio guys get to hear the devialet?

really need to catch up on some digital benchmarking

From a fellow Naimee:

...listened to a few one box solutions from Linn, Naim and also the Devialet D-premier. My current system was 252,250.2. We had a long demo of the Devialet with B&W, Devore and Sonus Faber speakers. The system didn't sound bad, but we were also not attracted to it. It sounds very clean and can play quite loud with no form of strain. But for us it lacked musicality and involvement, especially compared to Naim. Those things are hard to explain in audio equipment, it's just there or not. It was easily noticed that on most songs we listened i felt i wanted to skip to another song before the one playing was finished. ...

Aleg wrote: Shame of such a derogaratory remark john, it only comes across as spite from someone who can't afford it.

That's one interpretation of what I said. But the reality of our audio hobby is that it's not only about the sound & recognising this I don't consider derogatory. The same as owning an Aston Martin DB9 is not just about the performance! I did make the remark to one of our forum members beside me in Cloney's about the Devialet when I saw it - it's my sense of humour (or lack of), I guess?
PS, the remark about "can't afford it" makes no sense for a commercial product - as the cost of the shiny solid aluminium block (+ some extra) is passed onto the customer in the price

I can asure you this is not a commercial strategy. If you can bring yourself to cross the doorstep of Naim store that sells the 500 Series just listens to it once, I think you'll be in for a surprise. Or for even more fun visit the factory in Salisbury.

Hey, I've nothing against Naim & don't take my comment as derogatory about Naim either but again to ignore the commercial implications of their strategy is maybe naive - I'm sure they could manufacture as good a sounding one box solution, if they chose to

Having some of the separate boxes myself I can also from experience tell you it is not about the looks. Four of my boxes are even out of view, so if that's not proof ;-)

aleg

No problem with your decisions but looks do count & can sway our judgement. I, like you would like to think that I'm immune to this but I believe it would be a denial of the human psyche.

No derogatory or defamation attempts being made in this post & hope you don't interpret it so.

jkeny wrote: Ah, yes the XXhighend NOS1 DAC.
Yes, agreed there are issues to be dealt with in a one box solution but these are under the control of the manufacturer whereas multibox system needs to be able to handle all the varieties/qualities of connections made between the boxes i.e the manufacturer has no control over this.

Also using short connections for high-speed signals is seems to be a good idea, in my opinion - it avoids all sorts of issues - examples include USB adapters instead of USB cable; I2S short connection; SPDIF short connection.

yes that makes sense,

was thinking about usb adapters the other day,
i used to use the little short bugger about 1" and a bit long which i preferred to most of the shelf cables until i started making my own
was wondering if the difference was because the cables were working like an antenna for noise more so than the adapter?

also thought about having the dac in the pc case and been feed direct from the usb3 header with short loose teflon covered silver wire?

in the small form factor its the sacrifices that do most of the harm

Aleg wrote:

nige2000 wrote:did none of the computer audio guys get to hear the devialet?

really need to catch up on some digital benchmarking

From a fellow Naimee:

...listened to a few one box solutions from Linn, Naim and also the Devialet D-premier. My current system was 252,250.2. We had a long demo of the Devialet with B&W, Devore and Sonus Faber speakers. The system didn't sound bad, but we were also not attracted to it. It sounds very clean and can play quite loud with no form of strain. But for us it lacked musicality and involvement, especially compared to Naim. Those things are hard to explain in audio equipment, it's just there or not. It was easily noticed that on most songs we listened i felt i wanted to skip to another song before the one playing was finished. ...

Was thinking more about geeky audio pc vs the brand named one box solutions
i had presumed they wouldnt be at the races vs our insanity/obsession

Aleg wrote:

jkeny wrote:

cvrle59 wrote: I do agree with Aleg on all-in-one box solution. You just need to take a look to Naim's line of products to figure that out. Even if it's possible technically, they will never give up selling more boxes and developing all of it in one box. I mean in their top reference systems. I haven't heard D7050 yet, but what I see, it doesn't look like a top end product anyway. It looks to me like a "new style receiver box", "Jack of all trades". I will apologize if I find I was wrong, once I get a chance to hear it.

Yes, there are sound commercial strategies for going with multiple boxes.
Agreed, trying to do too much in one box is not a good idea - sticking with doing one function very well seems to make sense.
I wouldn't judge the sound quality of the product by it's looks, although I'm aware that eye candy can influence what we hear :)
Regarding eye candy, the Devialet caught my eye in Cloney's - it struck me that it's solid block of shiny mirror-like aluminium when hung on a wall could double as a make-up mirror for one's significant other - forget about SQ & attend to SO - you know it makes sense!

Shame of such a derogaratory remark john, it only comes across as spite from someone who can't afford it.

I can asure you this is not a commercial strategy. If you can bring yourself to cross the doorstep of Naim store that sells the 500 Series just listens to it once, I think you'll be in for a surprise. Or for even more fun visit the factory in Salisbury.
Having some of the separate boxes myself I can also from experience tell you it is not about the looks. Four of my boxes are even out of view, so if that's not proof ;-)

aleg

"You're Nobody Without A Naim"...sorry, I read it somewhere!
LOL

nige2000 wrote: yes that makes sense,

was thinking about usb adapters the other day,
i used to use the little short bugger about 1" and a bit long which i preferred to most of the shelf cables until i started making my own
was wondering if the difference was because the cables were working like an antenna for noise more so than the adapter?

Could well be one of the reasons - I also think that signal attenuation at high speeds is generally less & also that a stiff adapter (no jokes please) doesn't suffer the bending twisting of cables which can cause a change in the twist of the differential USB signal wires & therefore a loss of some balance between the D+/D- signals

also thought about having the dac in the pc case and been feed direct from the usb3 header with short loose teflon covered silver wire?

Yea, implementation is crucial but possible

in the small form factor its the sacrifices that do most of the harm

Because of the proximity of the PS, etc? But the PS doesn't have to be a source of radiating EMI or RFI - it can be addressed - one of the biggest offenders seems to be the configuration of large electrolytic capacitor bank after the rectifier bridge.

cvrle59 wrote: "You're Nobody Without A Naim"...I read it somewhere!
LOL

One of the first "proper sounding" systems I heard which caught my attention was a Naim - can't remember what model etc it was but it was extracting pretty realistic sound from a cassette (that gives you an idea of the vintage)
But, don't mind me - I'm a nobody :)

Oh well that certainly got some opinions out!

Horses for courses of course. I have had v expensive separates myself over the years (not NAIM) and currently have Bow Technologies ZZ-Eight and ZZ-One.

For digital play back, one has to rethink one's long held views. Keeping the signal digital all the way to the last stage connected to the speakers makes sense. Avoiding USB/SPDIF conversion/cables/receiver chips all doing their worst to destroy your signal purity makes sense. Doing away with the need for a pre-amp makes sense (the DDA does that lossless digitally by varying the output voltage).Keeping PCM without the need for a DAC (DDA) makes sense. Connecting the parts of the chain together hardwired makes sense. Of course the implementation of all of it is critical and some will be good and others not so good. I have no affiliation with NAD but all those who bought the M Series are glowing about the SQ and build quality (for eye candy look at the M Series).

Lastly, re streaming, Gordon himself says that there is less going on versus a PC transport render loop and Direct Memory Access (DMA) can be achieved without the need for CPU involvement. That's inherently a 'better way' of doing it.

I doubt anyone will agree with me and that's fine. However, I will certainly not change my view that both Windows and a PC is definitely a bad solution to digital audio and I have spent too much of my life trying to make it acceptable.

jkeny wrote:

cvrle59 wrote: "You're Nobody Without A Naim"...I read it somewhere!
LOL

One of the first "proper sounding" systems I heard which caught my attention was a Naim - can't remember what model etc it was but it was extracting pretty realistic sound from a cassette (that gives you an idea of the vintage)
But, don't mind me - I'm a nobody :)

You know that I didn't mean it, I just love Naim so much...it does bring musicians to my leaving room.