Tír Na HiFi

jkeny wrote:

jrling wrote: NAD are really being innovative in a market that has been stuck in a rut for decades. I would be really interested to hear how it measures up. I would back it to do really well.

Have you heard the NAD D7050? Streaming to it by Ethernet or Wireless and then one path all the way through to the speakers, I think could be a winner.

No, Haven't heard this model - looks like it uses the same Zetec (DDFA) chip as the M51 & C3900DD so could well sound she similar. Although as in all things, it depends on the implementation - the M51 implementation being superior to the C3900DD - don't know where the D7050 fits into this scheme?

I will not be able to answer your question, having not heard any of them; however, theoretically, the D 7050 moves to a fully integrated streaming solution, whereas M51 & C390DD (not 3900DD?) are just Direct Digital Amps having to be fed from a transport, and so not comparing apples with apples. I personally think that offers a better chance of good SQ or to put it another way, less opportunities for 'spoiling' the signal quality with numerous PSU/cables/interfaces.

I am being persuaded by the renowned 'Soundchekk' (Klaus) who is punting the D7050 as potentially the next big thing in digital playback and has auditioned the M50/M51 combo. I certainly think NAD will have put an astounding amount of R&D into it. Gordon says the M50 took NAD 6 years of R&D before release including employing specialist external consultants to work on the Linux streaming software. So one would guess they are maxxing the investment by producing different products with the same technologies.

But what do I know?!

jrling wrote:...
I personally think that offers a better chance of good SQ or to put it another way, less opportunities for 'spoiling' the signal quality with numerous PSU/cables/interfaces.

...

Jrling

IMHO it has been shown, by e.g. a company as Naim, that separates in pre- and power-amps and esp. separating the PSU from pre-amps leads to the highest sound quality possible. Besides this separating of components, you see their top-of-the-range (and SQ) products put extreme effort in reducing microphonics by using dampened PCB's and connectors etc.

Cabling need to be part of the design as well, that's why Naim also have their interconnects, power cables and speaker cables produced according to their own specifications. Also they are extremely focused on using electronic components and transformers that comply to the most narrow of tolerances.

I don't believe the all-in-one will be the ultimate solution, on the contrary I would say.

Cheers

Aleg

Agreed, JR, won't know how well the D7050 is implemented until get a look inside one - no pics online yet that I can find. NAD did spend a lot of time in R&D with Zetex in developing/configuring the DDFA chip for use in their products & in designing the Master series product range.

About the streaming - I don't believe it is really much different as regards noise intrusion than an external transport - still a ground path for noise pollution. Whereas trying a USB stick as the source of audio files should avoid this issue but may not be the best implementation - will see.

I can tell you that in the C390DD NAD''s attention to ground configuration is not exemplary - it uses a lot of separate boards with suspicious grounding between them. It is one of the issues I have with it (even though there is no audible hum - grounding can affect SQ in other ways). It's just one of the pitfalls of using a chip which has digital feedback (DDFA) - it can lead to being lazy about grounding/PS issues as the feedback will supposedly correct for it.

I suspect the same will apply in the D7050

Aleg, there's no fundamental problem with an all-in-one box solution, once done correctly. Avoiding cables acting as antennae, potential ground loops, common mode noise issues, etc are all good reasons for going single box

jkeny wrote:Agreed, JR, won't know how well the D7050 is implemented until get a look inside one - no pics online yet that I can find. NAD did spend a lot of time in R&D with Zetex in developing/configuring the DDFA chip for use in their products & in designing the Master series product range.

About the streaming - I don't believe it is really much different as regards noise intrusion than an external transport - still a ground path for noise pollution. Whereas trying a USB stick as the source of audio files should avoid this issue but may not be the best implementation - will see.

I can tell you that in the C390DD NAD''s attention to ground configuration is not exemplary - it uses a lot of separate boards with suspicious grounding between them. It is one of the issues I have with it (even though there is no audible hum - grounding can affect SQ in other ways). It's just one of the pitfalls of using a chip which has digital feedback (DDFA) - it can lead to being lazy about grounding/PS issues as the feedback will supposedly correct for it.

I suspect the same will apply in the D7050

Aleg, there's no fundamental problem with an all-in-one box solution, once done correctly. Avoiding cables acting as antennae, potential ground loops, common mode noise issues, etc are all good reasons for going single box

I do agree with Aleg on all-in-one box solution. You just need to take a look to Naim's line of products to figure that out. Even if it's possible technically, they will never give up selling more boxes and developing all of it in one box. I mean in their top reference systems. I haven't heard D7050 yet, but what I see, it doesn't look like a top end product anyway. It looks to me like a "new style receiver box", "Jack of all trades". I will apologize if I find I was wrong, once I get a chance to hear it.

cvrle59 wrote: I do agree with Aleg on all-in-one box solution. You just need to take a look to Naim's line of products to figure that out. Even if it's possible technically, they will never give up selling more boxes and developing all of it in one box. I mean in their top reference systems. I haven't heard D7050 yet, but what I see, it doesn't look like a top end product anyway. It looks to me like a "new style receiver box", "Jack of all trades". I will apologize if I find I was wrong, once I get a chance to hear it.

Yes, there are sound commercial strategies for going with multiple boxes.
Agreed, trying to do too much in one box is not a good idea - sticking with doing one function very well seems to make sense.
I wouldn't judge the sound quality of the product by it's looks, although I'm aware that eye candy can influence what we hear :)
Regarding eye candy, the Devialet caught my eye in Cloney's - it struck me that it's solid block of shiny mirror-like aluminium when hung on a wall could double as a make-up mirror for one's significant other - forget about SQ & attend to SO - you know it makes sense!

jkeny wrote:

cvrle59 wrote: I do agree with Aleg on all-in-one box solution. You just need to take a look to Naim's line of products to figure that out. Even if it's possible technically, they will never give up selling more boxes and developing all of it in one box. I mean in their top reference systems. I haven't heard D7050 yet, but what I see, it doesn't look like a top end product anyway. It looks to me like a "new style receiver box", "Jack of all trades". I will apologize if I find I was wrong, once I get a chance to hear it.

Yes, there are sound commercial strategies for going with multiple boxes.
Agreed, trying to do too much in one box is not a good idea - sticking with doing one function very well seems to make sense.
I wouldn't judge the sound quality of the product by it's looks, although I'm aware that eye candy can influence what we hear :)
Regarding eye candy, the Devialet caught my eye in Cloney's - it struck me that it's solid block of shiny mirror-like aluminium when hung on a wall could double as a make-up mirror for one's significant other - forget about SQ & attend to SO - you know it makes sense!

I have a dealer close to my place, so you certainly convinced me to give it try.

cvrle59 wrote:I have a dealer close to my place, so you certainly convinced me to give it try.

Which, the NAD or Devialet :)? Actually Cloney is a dealer for both, it seems - did anybody hear the NAD D7050 in Cloney's yet?
Report back anyway!

For some reason im dying to say IPOD...

The problem with one box solutions can be that they can compromise on components/power supplies for their small form factor, potential for cross contamination of emi/rfi
the more high quality linears to separate components the merrier

im sure it could be done though, if no sacrifices are made and is well shielded and grounded,

maybe sort of a box full of little boxes for each section

did none of the computer audio guys get to hear the devialet?

really need to catch up on some digital benchmarking

jkeny wrote:

cvrle59 wrote: I do agree with Aleg on all-in-one box solution. You just need to take a look to Naim's line of products to figure that out. Even if it's possible technically, they will never give up selling more boxes and developing all of it in one box. I mean in their top reference systems. I haven't heard D7050 yet, but what I see, it doesn't look like a top end product anyway. It looks to me like a "new style receiver box", "Jack of all trades". I will apologize if I find I was wrong, once I get a chance to hear it.

Yes, there are sound commercial strategies for going with multiple boxes.
Agreed, trying to do too much in one box is not a good idea - sticking with doing one function very well seems to make sense.
I wouldn't judge the sound quality of the product by it's looks, although I'm aware that eye candy can influence what we hear :)
Regarding eye candy, the Devialet caught my eye in Cloney's - it struck me that it's solid block of shiny mirror-like aluminium when hung on a wall could double as a make-up mirror for one's significant other - forget about SQ & attend to SO - you know it makes sense!

Shame of such a derogaratory remark john, it only comes across as spite from someone who can't afford it.

I can asure you this is not a commercial strategy. If you can bring yourself to cross the doorstep of Naim store that sells the 500 Series just listens to it once, I think you'll be in for a surprise. Or for even more fun visit the factory in Salisbury.

Having some of the separate boxes myself I can also from experience tell you it is not about the looks. Four of my boxes are even out of view, so if that's not proof ;-)

aleg