Tír Na HiFi

I think Nige meant what you stated before: you should make things equal, i.e. use the same USB card/port, cables, etc... for both players.

sig8 wrote:

nige2000 wrote:

sig8 wrote:
The only thing I noticed using wtfplay vs my BugHead is that bass was lot weaker with wtf. Is it because I was using an on-board USB vs JCAT USB card, a regular USB cable vs Supra, do not know, but I will try to make things equal the next time, did not have much time to play, but any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

that would be a significant disadvantage

Can you please clarify. What would be significant disadvantage? Not using JCAT USB card for wrtplay? Just want to make sure I understand clearly. Thanks.

I would say: "..... that bass was lot weaker with wtf."

The only thing I noticed using wtfplay vs my BugHead is that bass was lot weaker with wtf

As nige pointed out, you are not comparing apples with apples in the replay chain and I look forward to your findings when you do give them a fair comparison on the same hardware.

I have tested all versions of WTFPlay that frd1996 has produced. I have found that the latest version of WTFPlay [0.5] is not at all weak on bass - in fact the opposite is the case in my set-up.

More to the point, weak bass can be mistaken for tight tuneful bass in proportion with the other spectrum of frequencies in the mix. Some earlier versions of WTFPlay did have 'stronger' bass, but in hindsight that was slightly boomy overpowering mid-bass dominating when it should not. I have found the same with other players, but not tried BHE.

So my feedback is that when the recording has deep bass, WTFPlay really does reproduce it on my sub to startling and very pleasing effect. YMMV of course.

Jonathan

I have a choice of three computers to set up WTFPlay. I would like to know which would sound the best (I know I can try all three but someone with knowledge and experience can probably tell).

1. Intel i7 6700 3.4 GHz (can be under clocked to 1.6, I have tried), 16 GB RAM (can make it 4, 8, 12 or 16). Gigabyte Z170 MoBo. HDPlex 300W ATX power supply. Fanless case.

2. AS Rock Q1900M Quad Core J1900 processor. 4 or 8 GB RAM. HDPlex 300W ATX power supply. Fanless case.

3. CAPS v3 Lagoon; Intel DN2800MT MoBo. Linear power supply. Fanless case.

Thanks.

I am no longer working with a a computer or WTF, though WTF was what I used when I did use a computer. I have not heard the latest versions but when I was using it it sure sounded better than anything I had ever tried previously.

For what its worth (which is likely immeasurable) I do not think any of your MB/CPUs will bring out the best in WTF.

They are all much too fast.

I always heard best sound with CPU running slow, in my case with the I3 4160t, this was 800 mHz. I also found that WTF does not need a large memory, which is always an advantage when you are trying to minimize digital noises. I used 2 gB though I could use 1 gB but I found my 2 gB stick sounded better. Probably had more to do with the components in the stick more than the capacity.

ASROCK boards have excellent BIOS and if you were able to use another CPU that board would be my choice. INTEL has basically no flexibility within BIOS and you are simply stuck with settings that are good for its intended purpose and high quality audio was not a design configuration.

Go with a cheap H81 board from ASROCK or MSI and get the low power INTEL CPU. ASROCK has superior BIOS to MSI.

Turn everything you can OFF in BIOS. You do not want the interference.

WTF is being developed by a fellow who wants it to sound like music not like sound effects. You need a system that gets out of the way.

I admit I never listened to BUGHEAD. I know there are many who like it but it seems to me impossibly over complicated - it is the polar opposite of WTF and in my unhumble and singular opinion it is wrong. Like a restaurant with a twenty pages menu versus one with a short menu - which one will most likely serve you something good?

Maybe BUGHEAD works well with the over-complicated computer set-ups that have a panoply of add-on boxes and gizmos each of them trying to cover the "mistakes" of something else in the chain. Like the poor fellow who goes to too many doctors and has prescriptions from all of them and wonders why he feels so bad all of the time.

Good sound requires simplicity in all circuits - as the old saying: as simple as it can be and no simpler than required.

Try WTF with a MB that will allow low speed - retain the linear supply, of course. Better still follow jkeny and nige2000's battery power advice.

In the interests of disclosure I am now using the SDTrans which is far simpler than any computer setup and the sound is superior but it is in many ways not as convenient as having all of your music files in one easy to access place. Compromise is always with us.

rickmcinnis wrote:I am no longer working with a a computer or WTF, though WTF was what I used when I did use a computer. I have not heard the latest versions but when I was using it it sure sounded better than anything I had ever tried previously.

For what its worth (which is likely immeasurable) I do not think any of your MB/CPUs will bring out the best in WTF.

They are all much too fast.

I always heard best sound with CPU running slow, in my case with the I3 4160t, this was 800 mHz. I also found that WTF does not need a large memory, which is always an advantage when you are trying to minimize digital noises. I used 2 gB though I could use 1 gB but I found my 2 gB stick sounded better. Probably had more to do with the components in the stick more than the capacity.

ASROCK boards have excellent BIOS and if you were able to use another CPU that board would be my choice. INTEL has basically no flexibility within BIOS and you are simply stuck with settings that are good for its intended purpose and high quality audio was not a design configuration.

Go with a cheap H81 board from ASROCK or MSI and get the low power INTEL CPU. ASROCK has superior BIOS to MSI.

Turn everything you can OFF in BIOS. You do not want the interference.

WTF is being developed by a fellow who wants it to sound like music not like sound effects. You need a system that gets out of the way.

I admit I never listened to BUGHEAD. I know there are many who like it but it seems to me impossibly over complicated - it is the polar opposite of WTF and in my unhumble and singular opinion it is wrong. Like a restaurant with a twenty pages menu versus one with a short menu - which one will most likely serve you something good?

Maybe BUGHEAD works well with the over-complicated computer set-ups that have a panoply of add-on boxes and gizmos each of them trying to cover the "mistakes" of something else in the chain. Like the poor fellow who goes to too many doctors and has prescriptions from all of them and wonders why he feels so bad all of the time.

Good sound requires simplicity in all circuits - as the old saying: as simple as it can be and no simpler than required.

Try WTF with a MB that will allow low speed - retain the linear supply, of course. Better still follow jkeny and nige2000's battery power advice.

In the interests of disclosure I am now using the SDTrans which is far simpler than any computer setup and the sound is superior but it is in many ways not as convenient as having all of your music files in one easy to access place. Compromise is always with us.

Thank you very much. Very useful information, and very helpful. I will start off with my ASRock Q1900, and see where it takes us. I am a Bug Head user, and I am trying to compare that with WTFPlay.

Does under clocking CPU helps with noise and power?

Also, i3-4160t you mention seems to be a 3.1 Ghz processor. What am I missing? Did you simply under clocked it? Thanks again.

sig8 wrote:Thank you very much. Very useful information, and very helpful. I will start off with my ASRock Q1900, and see where it takes us. I am a Bug Head user, and I am trying to compare that with WTFPlay.

Does under clocking CPU helps with noise and power?

Also, i3-4160t you mention seems to be a 3.1 Ghz processor. What am I missing? Did you simply under clocked it? Thanks again.

Yes underclock your processor 800mhz if possible. Not at home but check out the computer audio threads Pearse(Sligolad) has a thread on the various settings but of course they might not be for your board. There are a variety of other tweaks in other threads. picoless supply to mobo which means separating out the various power supplies. i.e individual linear or battery supply(12v 3.3v and 5v) where required on the mobo. WTF or MQn but WTF is easier as MQn is optmized using W2012R2/ Audiophil optimizer etc etc. I like Ricks analogies above they are imho very accurate but the caveat is sometimes the tasting menu in restaurant is a must to get the best experience:)

I am happy to announce that wtfplay-live 0.5.1 has been released. No new
features this time, but the number of ISOs is growing: Intel Core i3/5/7
with AVX image and AMD optimised images are available.

You can download the images from http://wtfplay-project.org
The detailed release notes can be found at: http://wtfplay-project.org/rnotes.html

Enjoy!

A curse or stupidity?!

Couple weeks ago I bought JCAT sata V1 cable, which is not compatible with all motherboards (I assumed that the plug will fit or not....what else for a cable?!).
Using 2012 R2 and replacing the PPA sata with JPLAY sata on the MUSIC SSD (not OS), my computer start to freeze!!
Switching to PPA sata and everything went back to normal!
I tried different sata ports and the result was always the same!

Since then, I'm using my "old setup" and old PPA sata, and with 2012 R2, my PC works same as before, but, since then, WTF can't see that SAME music SSD!!!
Using different SSD in the same place works, but not the one with JPLAY sata curse on it!!
What could happen that did not affected the R2, but only WTF?!

Do I need to call Father Ted to perform Exorcism on my SSD, or there is a more scientific explanation and solution?!

Unfortunately, some of us over at Computer Audiophile have discovered that Paul Pang's (who makes both the PPA cable, obviously, AND the JCAT) SATA cables are often the culprit for a host of boot and Windows stability issues. Specifically, when pressed, Paul will tell people with faulty SATA cables that if they have plugged and unplugged the cable more than 10 times, their warranty is no longer valid, which seems to indicate the more you plug and unplug his SATA cables, the more likely they are to fail. Also have heard issues where his cables have caused the SATA connectors on a drive to become damaged - check to see that that is not the case by seeing if the drive is viewable by WTF with a regular/"non-audiophile" SATA cable would be my suggestion.