Tír Na HiFi

more bollox....

http://www.entreq.com/default.asp?PageId=1922

DaveF wrote:more bollox....

http://www.entreq.com/default.asp?PageId=1922

Can be bought in black or white too WOW !?!

"We considered that readers were likely to infer from the ad that the PowerKords products were effective in reducing mains-borne RFI beyond the reduction supplied by a standard mains cable. We considered that, because the products did not have an effect on CM RFI noise, and given the experts concerns about the lack of protective conductor and unrealistic termination impedances in the testing of DM RFI noise, the evidence we had seen was not sufficiently robust to demonstrate that the PowerKords products were effective in reducing mains-borne RFI. We concluded that the ad was likely to mislead."

I wonder how many power cords would fall into this category? Must mention this to Lars next time I see a Nordost demo.... ;)

Guys, careful what you wish for. As I understand it, the ASA ruling [against Russ Andrews] states that RA did not provide ROBUST PROOF of his claims about RFI and the negative effects of RFI on sound quality. He submitted a report from Ben Duncan, a number of testimonials from reviewers and customers and an admission that subjectively the cable improved the sound.

So that raises the question: what exactly is robust proof? Some of Lars demos, at least to these old ears, brought significant improvements to sound quality, is that robust proof? How can somone say that cartridge A is better than cartridge B without providing robust proof?

For what it is worth, I think the ASA ruling is a no win for anyone. For a start it does not explain why someone would complain about a companys advertising or what is that persons real motives for doing so. I think the ruling goes far beyond the limited world of hi-fi, is a BMW car really better than a Mazda, or a Rolex better than a Swatch.............. Robust proof needed please.

Robust proof, simply put, is blind testing. Can you perceive a difference if you don't know what's playing? It's as simple as that. You don't even have to be able to identify which is which, just be able to tell a difference in a statistically significant number of trials.

No matter how night and day we might think differences in cables are, they've a habit of getting a lot more dusky when you take away this knowledge. I've been tempted for years to try a blind test at home, but I'm afraid to. Basically, nobody has ever passed a blind test in analyses by audio engineering peer-reviewed journals, and I strongly suspect that if I tried it myself, my results would be no different.

Of course, none of this means the differences aren't real to you, or worth the money to you, even if the phenomenon is more psychological than scientific.

Diapason wrote: I've been tempted for years to try a blind test at home, but I'm afraid to. Basically, nobody has ever passed a blind test in analyses by audio engineering peer-reviewed journals, and I strongly suspect that if I tried it myself, my results would be no different.

While I've never been tempted to try a blind test I am pretty sure I'd fail one. That said I'm 100% sure that the cables I have now are better (in my system) than the cables I used before... and they're cheaper so it's not "that" factor.

I have tested various CD players, with the same interconnects, into the same system.

In addition I also played the same CD (2 copies) at the same time. I managed to synchronise the playing time so that they played the same track almost exactly.

I then closed my eyes and alternated between input channels to detect a change in quality of the sound.

For cable testing it gets a bit more complicated, as you would effectively have to have two identical CD players (for testing interconnects) or two pairs of identical speakers (testing speaker cables) or God forbid two identical systems for testing power cables. I have my own opinion about cables, which I am not go into.

But what I do feel passionately about is that there is choice available for audiophiles. This, I think is very important. If you wish to use the standard kettle lead or use a power cord made of solid silver then provided you can afford it you have the choice available to you.

Imagine if we lived in a world where only one type of car was available, or only one type of amplifier? That is your lot, take if or leave it. That would be a miserable planet to be on.

Ultimately its down to personal choice, and if you can afford it and are happy, then good on you!!

I have enjoyed reading a number of the articles posted as references on this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-end_audio_cables

I agree with the previous poster about having a choice, always a good thing.

I am not a believer in high priced cables. I’d much rather spend the money on component/speaker updates where (to my ears) a real improvement can be heard. I think that stock or very low end cables can be significantly improved on for not too much money but I have a real hard time buying into high priced cables. Every so often though I read reviews and forum posts about this cable or that and find myself thinking what if...

In the past I have heard a number to similar systems with and without high priced cables and from casual listening could not tell the difference. My personal preference is to go the middle road (or perhaps its the low road).

For power cords, outlet/extensions boxes I make my own using good quality ingredients: Venhaus Audio Star Quad wire or DH Labs Power Plus AC bulk cable, entry level Wattgate plugs and IECs and Porter Ports (basically Cryo Treated Hospital Grade AC Outlets with no plating – i.e. no nickel or tin).

For speaker cable again I use bulk cable and I like DH Labs Q10 signature, Furutech or Neotech. For the sake of having to do the termination itself it is possible to make relatively cheap speaker cables but with excellent quality wire, very pure continuous crystal copper etc.

I am still undecided about interconnects. My main ICs are actually from Dalkey Audio. I have some low end Nordost ICs that I am not happy with and want to replace. Next week should be interesting though in that I am getting a delivery of a number of different interconnects to try.

Diapason wrote:Robust proof, simply put, is blind testing.

plus measurements. It can be done to a very high degree of accuracy and easy to do also. How electricity behaves through a wire has been well understood for decades now if not longer. There is plenty of evidence plus DBT that show that there are no differences in power chords for example. Yet there isnt any shred of proof that can explain possible differences. Instead you get the usual laughable pseudo science bollox published by the cable sellers that tell the buyers exactly what they want to hear. Until such proof arises, any differences heard is due to placebo or expectation bias etc in my opinion. A former work colleague of mine starting working for a very high profile cable company during the summer, one which I probably should not name here. I learned a few truths since then.


(looking over at my valhalla IC's while feeling such a hypocrite!)

DaveF wrote:
(looking over at my valhalla IC's while feeling such a hypocrite!)

Well, that's a hypocrisy I share. As I've said here before, I tried to take the hard-headed approach for years, but whenever I heard other systems I left feeling mine had something missing. Cable upgrades have improved things for me and, when sighted, I'll swear blind (pun intended) I can hear the difference. I'm still not convinced I could persuade myself in a blind test, but I've made peace with this.

I absolutely agree that everyone should have a choice about what they buy, but I also think that advertisers shouldn't be able to make extraordinary claims without some degree of proof.

So where does that leave us? No idea!