Tír Na HiFi

The fun continues.

I bought a new idler wheel for my Lenco deck. It was on a whim, cost is not outrageous, about 50e.

I also had ordered some very nice 6n2p special ER grade valves for my phonostage. The idler wheel was from Russia, the valves from Ukraine. Both bought through ebay, both through ebay's shipping program, both parcels rejected by customs in Dublin mail centre because the electronic customs declaration did not have all the information (even though the tariff codes etc are on there). Both parcels sent back without any notification or update to tracking, so there was no way of me knowing other than sitting on a web chat with a very nice person from An Post this morning while I worked away at normal work.

Neither parcel was big money, both sellers are in the thousands of 100% perfect feedback, and are well recognised on all the forums as being good to deal with etc - and obviously not their first time sending a parcel overseas. Both sellers have been excellent to deal with so far when I contacted them.

To say its frustrating is the understatement of the year. This is added to other really frustrating customs issues I have heard other people having as well, and I don't have the information to know is this country wide, or is it due to application of customs in one centre?

BTW, none of this is about escaping customs - the ebay checkout process charges you VAT and duties up front, so you naturally think you are doing the right thing etc. and avoiding problems. Ireland inc is also missing out on the VAT which will undoubtedly now be refunded.

Fran

That is outrageously pedantic! If I understand these new arrangements properly there is an option of providing an electronic invoice which is sent directly to Irish Customs. In that case there is an administration fee payable to An Post of €3.50 to collect the VAT. If on the other hand, no electronic invoice is provided and an ordinary Declaration is attached to the package, the administration fee payable to An Post is €10 in addition to the VAT due.
Many businesses are small enterprises and will not be able to fulfil the Electronic Declaration procedure and will opt instead to declare the package as heretofore. I am thinking of the Japanese Record Shops that I have dealt with for used vinyl records. I haven't ordered anything since before March 2020 and the horror stories being shared here give me pause. I would need to speak to somebody in the Revenue to get a clear idea of what is now required to be able to import goods from third countries without experiencing the kinds of problems that are related here. I know there were changes on July 1st with regard to imports from third countries whereby the small exemption allowance of €22 was discontinued with the result that VAT and Customs Duties are now levied on the full declared value. It is probably a coincidence that this has happened when the full consequences of Brexit are now being felt also. These provisions are certainly creating an obstacle to trade with third countries leaving one with the sole option of buying from within the European Union to avoid the 'pettiness' of returning goods to the sender. As you say, Ireland was the beneficiary of the VAT charges on your goods and decided, for whatever reason, to return the goods and forego the tax because of 'minor' details. The appropriate tariff information was provided. This is not a good development at all. Instead of going forward and making progress, we are regressing with these protectionist anti trade policies. It seems to me that residents of the United States have quite generous exemptions when it comes to importing goods from third countries. The mere fact that one is ordering something, like Valves for instance, from a third country, signifies one thing. There is a very limited choice of goods (across all categories) available in Ireland making importation the only option in many cases and not just audio related.

I have always disliked the 'Brexiteer' mentality but I am beginning to have sympathy with it if the manner in which international packages are being dealt with by An Post and the European Union, is anything to go by. A friend of mine recently sent his SME V arm back to SME in England for a service overhaul. The work was done, paid for and the arm, which is his own property, was shipped back by SME. It arrived here in Ireland on the 7th October and hasn't moved since that date. My friend contacted a member of An Post's team in the last few days to discover that the package was being returned to SME because the Customs Declaration did not comply with the 'new' requirements introduced in July of this year. Throughout this, SME in West Sussex has been very helpful and will try and re-ship the item with a revised Customs Declaration. What in the name of God is going on? Does the EU want to restrict us from buying anything outside of its own member states? These new requirements, and I have to admit I am having trouble understanding exactly what is required, are totally unclear and An Post's own website does nothing to help explain what is needed exactly, in detail, what is required. It seems to me that if I purchase a record from a small shop in Japan, the seller has to send an electronic customs declaration to the Customs Authorities here? Now I ask you what small business is equipped to do this? It may be feasible for the Amazons and the Ebays of this world to do this given the huge number of transactions these monolithic organizations transact, but it is totally unworkable for small businesses or an individual selling on a website like Discogs. Another friend recently had 2 Japanese records he bought from a Japan based store returned to Japan. Eventually owing to the unworkable nature of these EU requirements, the seller in Japan refunded my friend's payment and he could not 'purchase' these 2 records which he really wanted. By the same token, I recently took a 'punt' on an Ebay purchase from a seller in Japan. I paid VAT at the checkout. The shipment came through without any issue. The Customs Declaration noted that VAT had been paid and included a reference number.

Maybe the Brexiteers aren't entirely wrong, much as I dislike the mentality behind a lot of it? By making it practically impossible to buy anything from outside the European Union, the EU is really engaging in a protectionist restraint of trade policy and prejudicing not alone business but also its own citizens. A family member recently remarked to me on a non audio related matter that 'you can't get anything in Ireland'. That is a blanket statement but if the item is rare, esoteric or of a niche character, one often has no option but to buy from third countries overseas. I think all of us here should be raising this with our TDs. It is quite simply an intolerable situation. We are all ready, willing and able to pay the VAT and charges due, but instead the powers that be are engaging in silly games to thwart us from owning anything that has come from a third country. The Government here needs a lot of money to pay for the COVID pandemic and all those expensive vaccines that have been administered free of charge. Refusing and declining VAT payments on imported goods is equivalent to shooting itself in the foot.

You need to separate two different things here:

1. The EU rule on charging VAT on imports from outside the EU changed in July this year. This was done so that EU companies had some sort of chance against China mainly. On balance its probably a fair enough thing. All members states were required to bring it in.....

2. The An Post implementation. Now this is where it all goes wrong. They decide that all items from outside the EU must have the correct TARIC customs code. If the parcel doesn't have this, and it cannot be added by the receiver after, they will simply reject it. BUT they never tell you this - the tracking just says "your mail is Dublin mails centre" and that never updates. Also, when they send the item back, there is generally a pink sticker on it that has a number of boxes that a postman could tick to put in a reason for non-delivery. The ones that happened to me had the "wrong address" ticked. So when the items went back to Canada, the seller thought they had the address wrong, which of course they didn't. An Post will say that this is a customs issue, but from my digging around, it is a rule from An Post, and nothing to do with Revenue at all.

I've been asking sellers to put the correct TARIC code on but you are still at the mercy of the sending post office to enter something correctly in there. There is a useful TARIC code generator on the An Post website.

Your friends best bet with the SME is to either use Addresspal in the UK, or use a courier other than AnPost, or else get it sent to someone in Northern Ireland and then drive up to pick it up. There is a UPS click and collect location in Newry I believe.

You think its bad that your friend doesn't have his SME arm yet? Just wait until thousands of presents from Santa Claus don't ever arrive!!!

Thanks for the clarification, Fran. This goes some way towards helping me understand what is going on. So it is An Post that is the cause of all this disruption? You would never know this trying to find answers on its website. Nobody has a problem or objection to paying VAT and/or Customs Duties on imported goods from third countries. It is normal in the course of business! I agree that something had to be done to curb the relentless enrichment of China by Western Customers. We've created a real monster there, but that is a separate issue.

So basically, if I am ordering anything from a third country I need to get the relevant TARIC Number which I presume is the new name for the former TARIFF Number? The seller should be advised of the correct TARIC Reference number and that should be entered on the Customs Declaration along with other necessary details. What then is the talk of 'Electronic Customs Declarations'? Does that apply only to large businesses (Amazon, Ebay etc.) who have a facility in place to pay the VAT due to the Irish Revenue Authorities directly? Surely, it cannot apply to a small store owner such as a record shop in my case? I just had a look at my Ebay Purchase Declaration and I can see no mention of a TARIC Number on it. There is reference however to the fact that VAT has been paid and a reference number is given on the form. I guess when An Post got this they decided to send it through as the VAT had been paid? I don't know Japanese but I doubt if any of the Japanese characters relate to the TARIC Number. I am going to give my friend a call and tell him to advise SME to get a Courier to deliver his SME V. At least a professional courier business will know what is involved and be able to troubleshoot any issues with Customs Authorities. I wonder if people in other EU Member countries are experiencing similar issues? I might post a thread on the Steve Hoffman forum. That might shed some light on this.

The Christmas rush is exactly what is needed to bring this to a head. Nobody cares too much about audiophiles and record collectors but when it begins to impinge on the public at large and Christmas presents, that will open the floodgates and hopefully bring An Post to its senses. So frustrating for anybody who has been caught up in this officious bureaucracy!

I need to get the relevant TARIC Number which I presume is the new name for the former TARIFF Number?

Yes as far as I know. And there is a useful calculator here on the An Post website that you can use. https://www.anpost.com/Commerce/Parcel- ... odity-code. In some countries they call this HS6 number, and I think in some places IOSS.

The seller should be advised of the correct TARIC Reference number and that should be entered on the Customs Declaration along with other necessary details

Yes, exactly

What then is the talk of 'Electronic Customs Declarations'?

For small sellers, as far as I can tell, what they need to do is make sure that the post office adds that in on the customs declaration. The idea is that one the post office the small seller is using enters that, then it should populate across to An Post.

fact that VAT has been paid and a reference number is given on the form

As far as I can see in their process, the presence or absence of the TARIC code on the customs declaration comes before they even look at VAT or tariffs. So you don't even get a chance to say that the VT is paid, or to pay the VAT.

that will open the floodgates and hopefully bring An Post to its senses.

It would be great to think so, but I think it simply involves cost/labour for them and they either can't or won't afford it.


From the USA I used addresspal and got very good results. The cost for the sender to send the parcel within the USA to addresspal was low. Then addresspal sort out the customs, I got a bill for VAT etc which was based on the smaller postage and item cost. Then a flat fee of 15.99 from addresspal. Overall this worked out much cheaper than international post from the USA. Also, bear in mind that since Trump stripped out the USPS, all international post is gone to hell.

I recently bought some materials for a speaker repair from Taiwan - they sent it last Tuesday by DHL. I got the request for VAT Friday morning, and the parcel will land here Monday. Postage was 30usd and worth every penny. So "proper" couriers seem to be the way to go.

Fran

on a similar note my son sent me a birthday present of a few dvds four weeks they have dissappeared of the face off the face of earth sent from newcastle uk

More great information there, Fran. Many thanks. There is a Reference IOSS -IM2760000742 on my Japan Customs Declaration. That is the TARIC Number for 'used vinyl record' or 'vinyl record', it would seem therefore? I thought it related to some electronic 'receipt' or other that Ebay issued in respect of the VAT paid, allowing An Post to verify the payment. As you say they are more interested in the TARIC Number at An Post before any question of import tax is addressed.

It seems to me that reference to an 'Electronic Customs Declaration' is misleading or confusing if all it refers to is the Customs Declaration that is completed at the sending Post Office? This is the problem I have with stuff like this. An Post should not use a term like that unless it defines exactly what it is. I had the impression that a small used record dealer on a back street somewhere had to send, independently, a Customs Declaration to the Customs/Revenue Authorities here in Ireland. Even thinking about that now just reinforces the absurdity of it all. Things are never properly explained anyway. I have imported hi-fi and hi-fi accessories in the past and I always got the procedure 'chapter and verse', directly from Revenue in letter form, back in the days when we wrote letters that is. The one thing you don't want is a nasty surprise when the item arrives and you can't get it for some technical reason or the importation taxes due are far more than you anticipated. It pays to your 'homework' beforehand.

I agree with you on the wisdom of using 'proper' couriers. I noticed in the last while that many Japan based vinyl sellers are offering DHL delivery. Using DHL, UPS and other courier services will save a lot of frustration and aggravation with the Postal Authorities. My friend has suggested to SME that they use DPD. I don't know a lot about DPD but they are certainly active and very visible in the courier business. I might even give my friend a call and suggest DHL to him as being a very well established international courier who would be 'on top' of all of the necessary requirements on importation here.

Thanks also for the information on Addresspal. It is something I will consider when the occasion arises.

markof wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:55 pm FYI

Digital editions of Hi FI News, Hi Fi Choice and Stereophile are free with a public library card (also free).

Mark

Tell me more, how does no avail of this with a library card?

Thanks

.sjb

Sloop John B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:14 pm

markof wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:55 pm FYI

Digital editions of Hi FI News, Hi Fi Choice and Stereophile are free with a public library card (also free).

Mark

Tell me more, how does no avail of this with a library card?

Thanks

.sjb

For first use - go into the library and ask them to set you up with borrowbox. They'll ask you to nominate a pin number. Then download the app etc and you enter your pin and its either email or library card number. They're all there, along with more audiobooks and ebooks than you could shake a stick at.