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Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:04 pm
by james
Hi tipdrinker,
Welcome to the forum!
I can't/won't recommend a particular DAC but you should be aware of the various input options. Not all DAC's have all the options ..
a) S/PDIF [Sony/Philips digital interface] : if you have a CD player with a digital output this is what you connect it to. Also the digital output of some TV set-top boxes. Connection can be via coax cable or fibre optic cable. Untill a few years ago this was the standard input to a DAC.
b) USB input. This is for connection to a computer. There was an old standard that only supported bit-tates to (max) 24/48 but a newer standard supports 24/96 [or higher]. You need to check the specifications. Often an old model may have the lower spec and a revised model the higher spec. If you are buying a second-hand model make sure you are looking at the correct specs for the exact version you are buying.
Some DACS will just suppor a), some just b) and some both a) and b). The top frequency used to be 24/96 but DACS are now appearing with 24/192. This only matters if you want hi-res downloads but its probably best to future-proof the system.
There are a few amps that include a DAC ..
James
James
Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:43 pm
by james
The new version of the amp has a DAC input ! [But you should probably aim higher].
But lots of amps are being made with DAC inputs ..
"...
DIGITAL INPUTS PLUS THE OPTION OF BLUETOOTH
With hi-fi systems being asked to handle more and more digital sources, Yamaha has equipped the A-S501 to cope with ease. Both optical and coaxial digital inputs are on hand to connect up your TV, CD player or other source with digital output. Taking this one stage further, add the optional Yamaha YBA-11 Bluetooth receiver and you'll be able to effortlessly link up your smartphone, tablet or other Bluetooth equipped device, giving you simple, wireless music streaming.
..."
Note it has S/PDIF inputs but not USB. USB is better for connecting to a computer although you can get sound cards with S/PDIF output ..
Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:09 pm
by nige2000
id prefer a usb interface too
i worry about integrated dacs in these type amps well at least at this price range
there usually built with plenty of compromises inferior/shared power supplies and vulnerable to emi/rfi within the case
id prefer a s/h simple well made integrated analog amp
doubt the yamaha is any better than the Marantz PM6005 anyhow
Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:25 pm
by tipdrinker
Diapason wrote:Hi tipdrinker, welcome to the forum!
You'll get lots of good advice here, but if I can just give you one piece: always trust your ears, never what you read.
I used to think that asking for hifi advice was like asking for car advice: some cars are better than others, the reviews reflect that and it's possible to establish some sense of quality via some kind of consensus. Now I think asking for hifi advice is more like asking "which pair of trousers should I buy?" You might be able to read some reviews about gross problems in quality or whatever, but for the most part you're going to have to try them on. And that's true whether you're buying in Dunnes or Armani.
Does some stuff sound better than others? Yes.
Does it justify its cost? Depends.
How much should you spend? Depends on how much you can afford!
Is some of this just rich men's toys? Sometimes it is, but perhaps not as often as you'd think.
Should you consider buying used? Definitely!!
Now, moving aside from the general and onto your last question, it's my view that buying a DAC followed by amp followed by speakers is the wrong way to go about this. Others will disagree, but here's my thinking: speakers make the single biggest difference to the sound you'll ultimately get in your room. Finding speakers that you like is the hardest part of the process, and the part that MOST depends on your own ears and listening habits. Once you've decided on the speakers, you can then consider the best amp to drive them. Some speakers require lots of power, some do better with much smaller power, etc. etc. You won't know what the best amp to buy is until you know what speakers the amp needs to drive. Finally (and this is where things get really controversial) I think the source (laptop, DAC, everything before the amps) makes the least difference of all. I regularly stream Spotify at 320kps from an iPad to a reasonably good system and I think it sounds wonderful. Is it state-of-the-art? Of course not, but for me an improvement in source is a much smaller improvement than anywhere else.
Go and listen to systems to get a flavour of what's what. Nobody's trying to shaft you except the magazines! You'll immediately get a sense of what sound works for YOU, and that should be your jumping off point. Don't be surprised if the 5 star award-winning best buy from What Hifi doesn't float your boat at all...
Cheers, really sound advice there. In terms of used so do the shops mentioned have a good selection of used? or is it best to look elsewhere? Any tips?
Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:50 pm
by Fran
Si - I think that should be a sticky!
Diapason wrote:Hi tipdrinker, welcome to the forum!
You'll get lots of good advice here, but if I can just give you one piece: always trust your ears, never what you read.
I used to think that asking for hifi advice was like asking for car advice: some cars are better than others, the reviews reflect that and it's possible to establish some sense of quality via some kind of consensus. Now I think asking for hifi advice is more like asking "which pair of trousers should I buy?" You might be able to read some reviews about gross problems in quality or whatever, but for the most part you're going to have to try them on. And that's true whether you're buying in Dunnes or Armani.
Does some stuff sound better than others? Yes.
Does it justify its cost? Depends.
How much should you spend? Depends on how much you can afford!
Is some of this just rich men's toys? Sometimes it is, but perhaps not as often as you'd think.
Should you consider buying used? Definitely!!
Now, moving aside from the general and onto your last question, it's my view that buying a DAC followed by amp followed by speakers is the wrong way to go about this. Others will disagree, but here's my thinking: speakers make the single biggest difference to the sound you'll ultimately get in your room. Finding speakers that you like is the hardest part of the process, and the part that MOST depends on your own ears and listening habits. Once you've decided on the speakers, you can then consider the best amp to drive them. Some speakers require lots of power, some do better with much smaller power, etc. etc. You won't know what the best amp to buy is until you know what speakers the amp needs to drive. Finally (and this is where things get really controversial) I think the source (laptop, DAC, everything before the amps) makes the least difference of all. I regularly stream Spotify at 320kps from an iPad to a reasonably good system and I think it sounds wonderful. Is it state-of-the-art? Of course not, but for me an improvement in source is a much smaller improvement than anywhere else.
Go and listen to systems to get a flavour of what's what. Nobody's trying to shaft you except the magazines! You'll immediately get a sense of what sound works for YOU, and that should be your jumping off point. Don't be surprised if the 5 star award-winning best buy from What Hifi doesn't float your boat at all...
Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:05 pm
by Adrian
Good advice there alright.
If I was starting out as a novice in anything i.e. photography, cars or whatever... I would start out at the budget end... just to get a feel for it. If I then like it more and more... then I would upgrade slowly, and making sure I enjoy each step of the way etc.
WRT Hi Fi... definitely go second hand, try and get it all for less than 1K.
If you like it then the world is your oyster!! Or so Frankie says!!
Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:24 pm
by tony
Speakers first alright unless a bargain comes up on the other items.
Not much around on adverts or donedeal. Adverts have a pair of System Audios but I think they are possibly too expensive as I believe they are 15yrs old.
Donedeal have a pair of Mission M35I's asking €350 but Ennis and I have no idea what they sound like. They look substantial enough.Also the new price is unknown to me as they are discontinued.
There would be a bit of a following for the JKCiunas dac here but you would need to source it secondhand to keep within budget.
Plenty of amps on adverts just a question of getting best bang for buck.
Maybe try Hifi hut to see what systems of a particular price level can sound like.
At least it gives you a pointer to what you might like.
Sounds like if you have expensive taste in photography you could be in trouble trying to keep the budget down on the hifi!
Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:41 am
by Diapason
You know, having said that I'd recommend used and I wouldn't be swayed by What Hifi Best Buys, I recently bought a new pair of B&W 685 S2 speakers and I really rate them. Now, they're not floorstanders so that's a problem, but I think they make a great sound for the money (670 Euro I think, can't remember exactly!) I'm told the slightly cheaper and smaller 686 is also really good, but I haven't heard them. I'm using the 685s with a computer into a Wadia 151 Powerdac which was available new for 500 USD from Music Direct or amazon.com, but now that I look for it I don't think it's available any more. That would have nearly brought you in under budget. Nearly.
Of course, it might not play loud enough for your needs or it might just not float your boat. I'd probably recommend a trip to Cloney anyway to hear what they offer, and maybe The Listening Suite too. I just don't know if you'll be able to get the right things there in budget, but you'll get a good sense of what you're looking for. I don't know Hifi Hut but by the look of the website they have some interesting stuff and I'd say you should have a listen in there too.
What I'd say is don't rush it, don't think of these early stages as trying to find something to buy, at the moment you're just trying to figure out what you want and what you get at the various price ranges. Put a few weeks into research on the ground and it will really help you make the right decision. You don't want buyer's remorse at 4-figure sums!
Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:25 pm
by DaveF
Would absolutely agree with Simon above. Start with the speakers OP. They'll have the biggest influence on the overall flavour of sound you'll get in your room. Its worth adding though that just because you like the sound of a pair of speakers in a dealers room, they wont necessarily sound the same in your own listening room. They may end up sounding better or not near as good. Sorry if this adds to the confusion but how your speakers interact with your room is a pretty important factor in the setup of your system.
Might be worth noting if there are any hard or reflective surfaces in your room. Bare walls, wooden floors and glass are often the biggest culprits. You can do lots of experimentation such as using heavy rugs on the floor or sofas near walls to 'break up' the sound and speaker positioning within the room.
I'd be inclined to spend a sizeable chunk of the budget on a good second hand pair of speakers. Then the right amp to drive them. Sourcewise....well a cheapish DAC fed by a PC would be a good option if most of your music is there. Otherwise if you've lots of CD's a good CD spinner can be had for buttons these days.
Re: How do I begin?
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:39 am
by mick
All of the advice given here on the forum is worthwhile.
My own two cents worth would be to pay a visit to Cloney Audio in Blackrock.
In their pre owned section they currently have a pair of System Audio SA 1550 floor standing speakers for €600 and a Rotel RA 1520 integrate amp for €400. I would get the lads out there to give you a listen to what sort of sound you could get for your €1000. This would give you some sort of benchmark by which to judge other equipment should you wish to do so. You might be delighted with what you hear. If you could stretch your budget a bit you could pick up a second hand Dac which would then allow you play music from your PC.
There have been John Kenny Dac 32 in the classifieds here for around €150 which is a steal and not too much above your budget.