Tír Na HiFi

jkeny wrote:BTW, guys when we compared Jplay to Vinyl, were we using the supertweeters? I don't think we were?

Secretly I think you are in love with those supertweeters John? You are right they had been taken out when we switched to turntable. Think they were out for MQN also. If memory serves me right you had gone out for awhile when we identified that the supertweeters were creating a difference when comparing my laptop/audio pc with Nigel's haswell control PC/audio PC set up. With the supertweeters removed no discernible differences could be detected between the two.

tony wrote:

jkeny wrote:BTW, guys when we compared Jplay to Vinyl, were we using the supertweeters? I don't think we were?

Secretly I think you are in love with those supertweeters John?

Yes, any chance you might sell them cheaply now that Fran & I have convinced you that there rubbish?

You are right they had been taken out when we switched to turntable. Think they were out for MQN also. If memory serves me right you had gone out for awhile when we identified that the supertweeters were creating a difference when comparing my laptop/audio pc with Nigel's haswell control PC/audio PC set up. With the supertweeters removed no discernible differences could be detected between the two.

Yes, I thought we had identified this before I left - tweeters in your PC config sounded harsher than Nige's; tweeters out = no audible difference between the two PC configs. Was it just the harshness that was noted or was there another characteristic to the audible differences?

I wonder if we had put the STs back how it might have changed our comparisons between Jplay, vinyl & MQN?

Will hold out till they become bespoke sought after items.

On the harshness I don't know if that was the view. Different whether better or worse I aint sure maybe somebody else can comment.
The strange bit was how it became difficult to detect any difference when they were removed. One conclusion is the view put out by the manufacturer that they are very revealing of sources! What occurred kinda bears that out.

Need another test to compare them all again with the ST's!

In fairness it was me that was the whingy one RE the supertweeters. I was sitting on the lhs and to me there was a significant difference in the loudness between the 2 PC setups (ie Nigels and Tonys). Both were using the same dac, same jplay etcetc. On further investigation, the lads compared their jplaysettings to each other and there were differences. I think Tony had throttle off, but Nigel had it on, plus there were differences in minicache etcetc too.

At this stage the STs were also removed and after doing this, the loudness differences were not apparent any more. Was this due to the jplay differences, or the STs, or both..... I don't know. But the conclusion I remember on the night was that the STs certainly helped identify differences. Perhaps high freq stuff that the quads (or most speakers) wouldn't show up.

This last one I think is very interesting indeed. My hearing tops out in home-diy tests around 16k or so - which is about average for my age. Even though I "shouldn't" be hearing the STs, obviously I am, maybe due to harmonics down the scale or something. BUT what struck me afterwards is that right there is a very valid reason why some people wouldn't hear differences, and others would.

There's interesting stuff in this.

Fran

To me the fact that we could all hear the volume difference between 2 digital systems playing the same digital file with bit perfect playback says enough on the argument on bits are bits.
To then change buffer settings and other settings again in the digital domain to achieve similar volume and it worked to everyone's satisfaction was a real eye opener.

On the playback with the tweeters I had a different feel for what I was hearing, it felt to me that Nigel's system was getting more out of the top end but I felt it was a bit hard and I thought I would suffer on extended listening. On Tony's it may have been missing a little on top end but it seemed easier to listen to.
It seems that you have to have everything spot on particularly in the higher frequencies to produce all that micro detail and really enjoy it over extended listening sessions.
Maybe the brain compensates for a while and then says enough is enough!!!

BTW, went and ordered a DC to Dc convertor on Friday, then set the system up yesterday to see if I could find the problem....guess what everything is working great and all the tugging at wires and plugging and unplugging I cannot replicate the issue I had at Tony's....the joys of PC based playback.

Shame my Zuma did not work as it really sounds good and I would have loved to put it up against the vinyl on Tony's system.
Next time I am just going to bring the Cirrus, Zuma and Meitner as a package and see how it works.

Fran wrote:In fairness it was me that was the whingy one RE the supertweeters. I was sitting on the lhs and to me there was a significant difference in the loudness between the 2 PC setups (ie Nigels and Tonys). Both were using the same dac, same jplay etcetc. On further investigation, the lads compared their jplaysettings to each other and there were differences. I think Tony had throttle off, but Nigel had it on, plus there were differences in minicache etcetc too.

At this stage the STs were also removed and after doing this, the loudness differences were not apparent any more. Was this due to the jplay differences, or the STs, or both..... I don't know. But the conclusion I remember on the night was that the STs certainly helped identify differences. Perhaps high freq stuff that the quads (or most speakers) wouldn't show up.

This last one I think is very interesting indeed. My hearing tops out in home-diy tests around 16k or so - which is about average for my age. Even though I "shouldn't" be hearing the STs, obviously I am, maybe due to harmonics down the scale or something. BUT what struck me afterwards is that right there is a very valid reason why some people wouldn't hear differences, and others would.

There's interesting stuff in this.

Fran

We probably shouldn't be bringing this to other threads but it's Pretty much how I remember it

I don't know what it is though my new PCs seems to require more volume than the old ones but I think they have more detail ( subtle micro type ) due to my testing at home
But I couldn't hear much in it at Tonys if any
an odd time I didn't realise which system I listening to

I know a few might disagree but I prefer the lowest possible ultrasize I think it helps micro detail
That's why I was pushing it
I have had it down to 110 but it's not fully stable (150 at Tonys)

It's going to take some real nerdy testing to sort out

Sligolad wrote:To me the fact that we could all hear the volume difference between 2 digital systems playing the same digital file with bit perfect playback says enough on the argument on bits are bits.
To then change buffer settings and other settings again in the digital domain to achieve similar volume and it worked to everyone's satisfaction was a real eye opener.

Sure but was more than one variable changed? Were the supertweeters retired?

On the playback with the tweeters I had a different feel for what I was hearing, it felt to me that Nigel's system was getting more out of the top end but I felt it was a bit hard and I thought I would suffer on extended listening. On Tony's it may have been missing a little on top end but it seemed easier to listen to.

Yes, you may be correct & my preference was towards Tony's - I'm not sure as we then retired the STs & couldn't hear any diff. I was missing for the next time the STs were put back in.

It seems that you have to have everything spot on particularly in the higher frequencies to produce all that micro detail and really enjoy it over extended listening sessions.
Maybe the brain compensates for a while and then says enough is enough!!!

I believe we do acclimatise to the sound but I would love to know the limits of this acclimatisation

BTW, went and ordered a DC to Dc convertor on Friday, then set the system up yesterday to see if I could find the problem....guess what everything is working great and all the tugging at wires and plugging and unplugging I cannot replicate the issue I had at Tony's....the joys of PC based playback.

Shame my Zuma did not work as it really sounds good and I would have loved to put it up against the vinyl on Tony's system.
Next time I am just going to bring the Cirrus, Zuma and Meitner as a package and see how it works.

Yea, PC audio is challenging, at times.

John, I remember the tweeters being removed after we found the volume had levelled with the digital changes.

Sligolad wrote:John, I remember the tweeters being removed after we found the volume had levelled with the digital changes.

Ah, right, I wasn't there then, I must have misunderstood Fran's description, thanks!!
Yes that is a real conundrum for the bits-is-bits crew, isn't it?

Thinking back again I am beginning to doubt myself....we may need minutes from some of these gatherings in the future !!
Either way the tweeters if they were in or out were being affected differently by both systems.