Rattle leaves the Berlin Philharmonic

[Seán]

I don't like SSRattle's music-making. When I first developed an interest in Mahler I set out to acquire recordings of his music. I loved he sound of the BPO under the direction of von Karajan and Abbado too, so I thought it wise to buy BPO recordings. At first I couldn't "tune in" to some conductors whether they were with the BPO or not: Tennstedt with his bloody awful M5 and a fellow by the name of SSRattle who was conducting the BPO. I bought a few SSRattle/BPO Mahler cds and I ended up returning them to HMV, the only one I have left is the M10 and I rarely listen to it. I find that Rattle plods through the music, his Mahler is lifeless, his much lauded CBSO/M2 doesn't excite me either, for heaven's sake, even his Bartok Piano Concertos and Stravinsky recordings are lifeless too. I have heard his Beethoven and was not impressed. I am not a fan. He has led the BPO for many years -- why oh why didn't Abbado stay in Berlin? -- so he must be doing something right, I don't hear it, then again, if the truth be told, I am contrary.

On BBC Radio I have heard his conducting the BPO in the Schoenberg arrangement of Brahms music and I thought it was magnificent, I really liked it, I also have a Mahler/BPO M5 on DVD that is pleasant.

Who will take over the BPO in 2018? Ricardo Chailly? no, probably Gustavo Dudamel instead.

[james]

From todays Guardian ..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/ja ... ilharmonic

[Jose Echenique]

<probably Gustavo Dudamel instead.>

Please God, NOOOOOO!!!!!

The BPO needs a master conductor, not a cheerleader with funny hair.

[Jose Echenique]

<why oh why didn't Abbado stay in Berlin? >

Abbado HAD to leave Berlin because of a major cancer operation. In his case it´s understandable that he could no longer meet the huge demands and requirements of such an important orchestra.
He seems quite content in Lucern though. He only has to be there during the summer.

[Seán]

<probably Gustavo Dudamel instead.>

Please God, NOOOOOO!!!!!

The BPO needs a master conductor, not a cheerleader with funny hair.

Pepe, who would you like to see lead the BPO?

[Seán]

<why oh why didn't Abbado stay in Berlin? >

Abbado HAD to leave Berlin because of a major cancer operation. In his case it´s understandable that he could no longer meet the huge demands and requirements of such an important orchestra.
He seems quite content in Lucern though. He only has to be there during the summer.

I knew that he had stomach cancer and had major surgery as a result I didn't that it was that long ago. Abbado does splendid work with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra, their Mahler performances are the stuff of dreams.

[Ciaran]

probably Gustavo Dudamel instead.

That thought had crossed my mind too. Chilling!

[Jose Echenique]

<probably Gustavo Dudamel instead.>

Please God, NOOOOOO!!!!!

The BPO needs a master conductor, not a cheerleader with funny hair.

Pepe, who would you like to see lead the BPO?

In the other Forum Christian Thielemann was mentioned. I´m not crazy about him, but he is a likely candidate. My own choice right now would be Myung Whun-Chung, an immensely talented conductor that made a lot of excellent recordings for DG while he was in La Bastille. He is versatile, good in opera and instrumental music, and has the stature for the job.
John Eliot Gardiner certainly has what it takes, and his immense Catholic musical tastes could fill every BPO requirement from Mozart to Bizet to Britten. But then he is seen as a "period guy" and maybe that is correct. I would HATE to see him leave the Orchestre Revolutionnaire et Romantique!!!
A name not mentioned, but one that deserves consideration is Tony Pappano. Though he is more thought of as an opera conductor, every thing I have heard of him in orchestral repertoire is exceedingly good, I mean, I´d take him any day over Rattle in practically anything.

[Jared]

I'm not really sure whether I can add much to this debate, because you have a wide variety of informed opinions, and I personally don't have a wide selection of Rattle's recordings with the Berliner, however I'll just say this...

It's not so much that Rattle has been criticised for poor standards of performance, rather that CM enthusiasts had hoped for a little more... there is no doubting that in the CBSO, he took a 2nd division orchestra by the scruff of the neck and made some world beating, high quality performances with them, and the feeling was 'if he can do that with the CBSO, what great things can he do with the Berliner?' The truth of the matter is that he hasn't really.

When he has recorded standards like the LvB and Brahms Symph cycles; reprtoire which runs through the very veins of the orchestra, the results have always been uneven and consequently met with mixed reviews; maybe because critics had mentally set such a high bar beforehand, and therefore feel the last 12 years or so have been one of missed opportunities.

One thing I will say for Rattle is that his relationship with the Berliner has always seemed to be most convincing in 20th Century repertoire which ironically, they had not really been known for, before his arrival... here is one which I personally have and rate of his:

[james]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/ja ... harmoniker

Here is the Guardian's prediction ..


"...................
The remarkably extended five-year contest to succeed Rattle in Berlin guarantees that most of the big names in classical music will be heading for the German capital over the coming seasons. Strategically, the Philharmoniker will surely be tempted to skip a generation and stay on the cutting edge of orchestral life. In that case, there is bound to be speculation, and commercial pressure, for them to hand the baton to Venezuela's charismatic 31-year-old Gustavo Dudamel, now in charge of the Los Angeles Philharmonic, or even Britain's hugely admired Robin Ticciati, 29. Vasily Petrenko, the 36-year-old chief conductor of the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic, must also stand a strong chance of becoming the Berliners' first Russian boss.


But if the Berliners think the young pretenders must wait their turn before ascending to the most prestigious podium of them all, there will be no lack of contenders to choose from. Germany's great traditionalist Christian Thielemann, now 53 and currently based in Dresden, is sure to covet the job, and has recently been broadening his repertoire in ways that are likely to help his chances. Italy's Riccardo Chailly, in charge of the Leipzig Gewandhaus and just two years older than Rattle, would be on most people's shortlists. So would the veteran Latvian Mariss Jansons, who leads two of the world's top orchestras already, the Amsterdam Concertgebouw and the Munich-based Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra.


The favourite, though, could well be another young maestro whose career has prospered, like Rattle's, in Birmingham. Andris Nelsons, another Latvian and still only 34, is the hottest conducting property in Europe today. Nelsons is surely the man to beat.
....."