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Seán wrote:

james wrote:

Mahler No. 1 is like Mahler but that's about it.

I meant Mahler No. 1 is like Shostakovich .. sorry for the typo.

Shostakovich's Symphony No 5 is probably the closest Shostakovich gets to Mahler, others may take a different view?

I always feel Shostakovich 14 is his very Russian response to Das Lied von der Erde.

Ciaran wrote: The Seventh worked for me! In fact I still feel disappointed that the other symphonies aren't more like it. When I started exploring the others (as I quickly did, Mahler became something of an obsession for me!) I was hoping for more of the same!

I think I'm currently in the same boat. Mahler hasn't really done much for me thus far, but the 7th really grabbed my attention.

Shostakovich's Symphony No 5 is probably the closest Shostakovich gets to Mahler, others may take a different view?

Before the thread gets properly started [I don't want to hijack it as a discussion of Shostakovich] I will explain ..

I first got interested in Shostakovich via symphony 5 [a work I still really enjoy]
Then I read that Shostakovich was like Mahler so I decided to listen to Mahler and got a copy of Mahler 1 [not sure why I picked M1 -- probably because it was about the only Mahler symphony that fitted on one record]
I liked Mahler 1
Decided I liked Mahler and so I tried some of the other symphonies but never became a fan. [A friend had M8 -- symphony of a thousand -- I liked the Latin first movement but not the rest of it in German]
I have a set of all the Mahler symphonies but hardly ever listen to them
[I have Shostakovich and listen to my favourites a lot -- S5 / S10 / S12 / S14 / S15]
Even though I have a full set of Mahler I don't think I have ever listened to all of them ..

So roll on symphony 7

james

One of the first things that struck me about Mahler 7 was the that there is something really special about the orchestration. Even with the very basic old record-player I had when I heard it first, I had the feeling that he made every instrument count in a way I hadn't heard before. The orchestra itself is on the large side, but not particularly large for a late romantic work. The Eulenburg pocket score lists:

Woodwind

• 2 piccolos
• 4 flutes (3 takes second piccolo)
• 3 Oboes
• English Horn (or cor anglais if you prefer it in French!)
• E♭ Clarinet
• 3 Clarinets in A and B♭
• Bass Clarinet in A and B♭
• 3 Bassoons
• Double Bassoon

Brass

• Tenor Horn in B♭
• 4 French Horns in F
• 3 Trumpets in F and B♭
• 3 Trombones
• Tuba

Percussion

• Timpani
• Bass Drum
• Cymbals
• Tam-tam
• Triangle
• Glockenspiel
• Tambourine
• Cowbells
• Deep Bells
• Rute (not in the Orchestra List, but called for in the score)

Strings

• Violins
• Violas
• Cellos
• Double Basses
• 2 Harps
• Mandolin
• Guitar

Mahler percussion specialities here are the cowbells, which had been so important in the Sixth and rute (bunch of sticks to slapped against the case of the bass drum). A real oddity is the Tenor Horn in B♭, which is not an orchestral instrument, but is found in German and Austrian brass bands. Such is the inconsistency of nomenclature here that it is not the same as the tenor horn of a British or American brass band: apparently it corresponds more closely to the baritone horn in B♭. I wonder is it often substituted by a more readily-available brass instrument? It is heard prominently at the opening of the first movement, wailing the first theme against a stern funeral march in the strings and woodwind. The tenor horn comes back prominently several times in the first movement, but is never heard again after that. Here it is on its own, played by Nico Schippers of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra:



As you can see, it looks a bit like a big Wagner Tuba.

Other instruments we don't expect to see in a symphony orchestra are the mandolin and the guitar. These feature prominently in the second Night Music (= 4th movement). On my family's old record player the guitar was the only disappointment in the orchestration, as it was barely discernible. It comes over rather better on my current equipment! Like the tenor horn, Mahler gives the guitar only this one outing, but the mandolin was to reappear in the 8th and in Das Lied von der Erde. Its plangent sound could never be missed!

The special sound of the symphony comes (of course) not only from the make-up of the orchestra, but also the way Mahler uses it. There is a lot of counterpoint and layering of sound, with different timbres used to keep the voices distinct. There is a lot of sheer joy in orchestral colour. Mahler uses effects like muting brass and strings, getting strings to play col legno, using very few instruments in interesting combinations, getting the section leaders to play solo, in short he uses every possibility at his disposal to heighten the colour and contrast already present in the music.

The third movement Scherzo starts with a wonderful example of Klangfarbenmelodie where the notes of a melody move from one instrument to another, at least that's how I hear it: I haven't seen anyone else comment on it! Mahler starts building a theme with two notes, the first on timpani, the second pizzicato on cellos and basses. This is repeated, then the third time we get a third note on horns followed by the original two twice and now clarinets and so on. The first time I heard it it made my head spin, it was one of my most exhilarating musical discoveries! Every time I listened to a new work by Mahler I was hoping to find another movement like it! The description at the start of this movement is Schattenhaft (shadowy) and it is full of spooky invention, delighting in harsh sounds, sudden loud sounds, discordant sounds and eventually leading to an extraordinarily startling sound (so unexpected, the first time you listen): at Bar 164, the cellos and basses have a pizzicato note played fffff with a footnote saying it must be plucked so hard that it strikes the fingerboard (later known as a Bartók pizzicato). It's like a slap in the face. Two bars later the same note is marked fff with no footnote. To Bartók or not to Bartók? Some conductors do, others use a normal pizzicato. Solti Bartóks a second time, and as that's what I first heard, I'm disappointed by the alternative, even if it does seem like a more exact reading of the score.

Each of the movements has its own sound world, and yet they all hang together wonderfully well. Mahler's irony and humour is more to the fore than usual, with tragedy and self-pity less in evidence than they often are. Yes there is a tragic undertow to the music, but there is also mockery and fun, making this unique among his symphonies, and possibly making it difficult to crack for Mahlerians who are expecting quite a different Mahler.

This evening I listened to



Mahler 7 with the South West German Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Michael Gielen, recorded in 1993. I found this very enjoyable and full of life, with excellent sound. Since I brought it up in my previous post, Gielen Bartóks twice, at bar 164 and at bar 166.

The newest Mahler 7 in my collection is



an SACD of Jonathon Nott conducting the Bamberg SO. It came out this year (2012) and was praised by reviewers (Editor's Choice in Gramophone). The sound is good, but the performance left me unmoved.

Recommended Recordings of Mahler 7

The last time M7 showed up on "Building a Library" (about ten years ago) the winner was Simon Rattle conducting the CBSO in a live performance at the Snape Maltings. I was a bit doubtful, but I liked his M2 and M4 so I bought it. I found it pretty disappointing: was it my first inkling of the Great British Mahler Conspiracy?!

That fount of information on Mahler recordings, the Late Tony Duggan approved of Bernstein, Horenstein, Gielen, Scherchen, Abbado and Zender. Of those, I adore Bernstein (NYPO), Gielen and Abbado (the analogue recording, glorious! I must get a copy of the newer live recording), and I like Scherchen and Zender.

For myself, I would add Gergiev, Solti and Boulez to Bernstein, Gielen and Abbado to get my desert island M7 line-up, and maybe Michael Tilson-Thomas. I'm looking forward to hearing Markus Stenz's M7 when he reaches it.

Otto Klemperer's M7 was very hard to get for a long time and I was eager to get it as his M2, M4 and M9 are indispensable. However it was something of a disappointment when I got it, with weirdly slow tempi.

Great notes Ciaran! I only got around to giving this a proper listen last night and the notes were really useful in getting a better understanding of this work. I am a bit of a Mahler newbie but I really enjoyed the work. So many different textures to enjoy in this work and there does seem to be a certain sense of humor or irony that is very entertaining. A work like this does not tend to take me on "a journey" the way Ma Vlast or Sibelius' works can do, but rather seem more "academic" and explorative or even searching for the "boundaries" of what can be done with the orchestra. I thought it was interesting to hear clear origins of modern film scores in this piece: I heard both Star Wars and Jaws along the way so maybe Williams had a listen to this at some stage ;).

I will listen again the coming days.
Thanks,
Claus

Claus wrote:I thought it was interesting to hear clear origins of modern film scores in this piece: I heard both Star Wars and Jaws along the way so maybe Williams had a listen to this at some stage ;).

I'm sure Mahler's scores were a mine of raw material for a lot of film composers, and of course the early ones like Korngold came from Vienna and would have known Mahler.

One of my favourites is the a moment in the first movement when it sounds just as if the the original "Star Trek" theme is going to start. It made me jump the first time I heard the piece!

In the 80s many people would have become familiar with the opening of the second movement, Nachtmusik I, (without having any idea what it was) from Castrol GTX advertising with the slogan "Castrol - liquid engineering" and a graphic featuring a drop of oil moving steadily from an oilcan into a spanner. It was a brilliant ad: I wonder did it inspire many people to explore Mahler?

Ciaran wrote: In the 80s many people would have become familiar with the opening of the second movement, Nachtmusik I, (without having any idea what it was) from Castrol GTX advertising with the slogan "Castrol - liquid engineering" and a graphic featuring a drop of oil moving steadily from an oilcan into a spanner. It was a brilliant ad: I wonder did it inspire many people to explore Mahler?

I certainly chuckled a little to myself on my recent first listening to Mahler 7 when I recognised those opening bars. It's a *very* effective motif.