Pushing the Computer Audio Boundaries :)

[Fran]

The easiest way to do this is via a controlled listening session. Kind of how you would do a hearing test.

Fran

[Diapason]

The easiest way...

Which, if my internet reading is anything to go by, is anything but easy!

It's unfortunate that these tests are always somehow scuppered, either by vested interests (on both sides of the equation) or by poor test design or whatever.

I still want to arrange a blind cable listening session at some point, but that's something for another thread. I'm certainly interested in the findings of the kind of tests being done here.

[Fran]

Yes, I agree Si.

I mean, exactly who is going to take a hotel room at an audio show, (pay for that of course) and then let one person through at a time, etc etc etc. I think thats the only way it could be done.

In fairness to the fella on the jplay forum, what was excellent is that it was his own piece of music (so no copyright worries) and also that it was about 30 secs long so that no-one could play a longer piece for the version you wanted to influence etc etc.


Fran

[jkeny]

I was once told on an audio forum to engage the psychology dept. of my local university to do a DBT - remember that Fran? . This was when I had decided (against my better judgement) to do a DBT for those who doubted the RF attenuators could have any effect on the sound. I quickly withdrew the offer when this outrageous suggestion was made - it showed how out of touch with reality some people are.

Edit: Fran, I actually think it was the wrong sort of music for this test - he more or less said so. It had no dynamic range & was not touching on the freq extremes at either end. I also think it was too short. The way I prefer to do these tests is to listen as if relaxing with my normal music & get a "feel" for the presentation of the piece, rather than trying to pick individual elements of difference between the two. It's only later that I do this sort of analytic listening.

[Claus]

The easiest way...

Which, if my internet reading is anything to go by, is anything but easy!

It's unfortunate that these tests are always somehow scuppered, either by vested interests (on both sides of the equation) or by poor test design or whatever.

I still want to arrange a blind cable listening session at some point, but that's something for another thread. I'm certainly interested in the findings of the kind of tests being done here.

After reading the Million Dollar Challenge post, I think testing is mostly futile. I have a plan to get my wife to do a double blind test for me here with some different cables. Just to confirm my nagging suspicions... Of course there is the whole question of what makes you happier and a more relaxed listener.... But that's a different thing entirely. I like this comment for some common sense:

"Imagine that somebody sneaks into your house and plants an exact copy of your Transparent Opus cables alonside the real ones--leaving both sets disconnected from the speakers and amp. Now, imagine further that the "fake" set contain ordinary radio shack wiring throughout (except for the connects--which are identical in every way to your current ones).

Now, how--as a subjectivist audiophile--do you go about determining which of these two sets to reconnect to your stereo and which to toss out in the trash? Whatever your answer to that question is--that's the test you need to do (and then find out if you have in fact made the determination successfully).

Please note that if the answer is "there's no test that can make that determination" then the whole "superior cable" claim collapses. After all, "subjectivist" claims are built on the claim that you "trust your ears, not the measurements." That means that at some point during the development of a "superior" cable, someone has to listen to a "standard" cable and a "prototype" cable and say "yes, the prototype is definitely better--I know it will cost thousands of dollars more, but the sound is definitely worth it." If they can't tell that they accidentally switched the prototype and the "standard" then they're charging thousands of dollars for nothing.

So--take your TAs and some Radio Shack zipcord and do whatever kind of test (except blinded) that you think a responsible cable-designer would do to decide if they've come up with a "good" design. Then see if you pick the TA cables as "better" significantly more often than 50% of the time."

Written by Yoink on http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=97675&page=4

Sorry for hijack ;)

[Diapason]

We should probably open another thread about this but it's very dangerous territory, and I fear that even our merry band of friendly audiophiles might end up getting hotter under the collar than is desirable!

Personally I'm FASCINATED by the whole question, on many different levels. Not everyone shares that fascination, I know.

[jkeny]

Concerning cables - I can definitely say that USB cables make a difference. I used to believe that they didn't matter in battery powered USB devices like mine, based on theory & based on the fact that I had bought a few different (recommended) USB cables but found no differences between them. So rather than continue with this pot luck approach I fortuitously decided to start with no cable as the ultimate test & if I couldn't hear any difference then I was sure that there was none to be heard. I did hear a big difference with this direct USB connection (even though this is digital data). Some reports are starting to come back from others trying this approach & they are all positive. Latest one compared it to a $1,500 Locus Nucleus USB cable, & the $10 direct adapters are just about beaten by the Nucleus (but not by other Locus USB cables) but it would seem only just :)

I look on this as a way of analysing what specs are important for USB cable performance in audio. Relying on manufacturers information for this is a nightmare of half-truths & marketing hype.

[Rocker]

John,

My wife and I listened to both of the tracks [sadly we did not have the time to listen to the ghost track] and you received our response. As I understood the question, we preferred one track over the other. I took it as read that one track was recorded on battery power and the other on mains power. It was of no concern to us which track was the battery one or the mains one. We preferred one. Simple enough, to our ears the 'result' was clearcut. It seems that was not enough for some respondents, they felt it was a requirement to pick out the battery recording or the mains recording too. A longer track with additional instruments would make it easier to form a judgement but I applaud the effort even if the result was 50/50.

Or indeed have I completely misread this thread and jumped to the wrong conclusions.

[jkeny]

Yes, thanks Rocker, much appreciate your response & both you & your wife's input. I find my wife has a more discerning ear even though she is not really interested in this hobby but when she says she like this better than that it is usually spot on. However put something visually incongruous in the living quarters & it doesn't matter how it sounds, the eyes have it every time - I always find myself saying aye, aye :)

[DaveF]

The original two yousendit links have expired John so I cant download them. The CD burner on my Mac is kaputt so would it be possible to post the tracks on a CD or would that just cloud the results?

I meant to try this out earlier but I'm tearing my hair out trying to solve my own amp issues at the moment.