Tír Na HiFi

Great news Si!!


well you may wear - great to be able to sit back and enjoy it without it wrecking your head!!



Fran

Here are a couple more more massive photos for your delectation and amusement.

Clothed:


Naked:

Lovely.
KM

I prefer them naked! Those amps look great. Great news Simon and I'm delighted for you. It has been a long journey for you! What about the issue where the sound was going from great to bad after a period as with previous amps? Is there still an underlying electrical issue in the room?

As for my own adventures in amplication, I've taken a backward step I think. The Opus21 which I have on loan has the same treble issue that has annoyed me greatly for past few months. The Opus was the last player that I expected to exhibit any such trait. So it has me scratching my head again and now pointing back at the amp.

To summarise:

I had a pair of Usher's with a Gamut/MFA and a Wadia 861i player + Clearaudio TT/Pro-ject TubeSEII phonostage. No problems with them but I was hankering after a pair of Kharmas ever since I first heard them.

1. Airtight ATM2 enters the above system. Out goes the Gamut/MFA.
Sound is a little more forward, pitched up in tone slightly, a little leaner and a treble resonance on *some* recordings. This is with CD and Vinyl playback. That said, there are many aspects of the Airtight sound that I like a lot so I hold onto the amp knowing that a pair of Kharmas are coming in soon. The Kharma/Airtight combo came recommended.

2. A whole load of cables, both IC's and speaker cable, were tried but it changed nothing of note. Speaker orientation/position changed in the room but the treble issue is still there as far as I can tell.

3. In comes the Kharma speakers.
The Kharmas are clearly superior to the Ushers. The driver integration and speed is what impresses me the most. Surprisingly though the above treble resonance issue is still there on some recordings. Both on CD and vinyl. (only some recordings I have to stress)

4. Suspicion is that the ATM2 is not a good match. So Fran brings over his own 211 and El34 valve amps.
The 211 sounds horrid but we suspected that it is far too underpowered for the Kharmas. The EL34 amp gives an ever slight more warm sound but the treble thing is still there. Now this was confusing at the time cos we know that both of Fran's amps are not lean nor have any treble issues.

5. Suspicions are now on the sources. A loan of a Meridian G07 CDP comes in. I like its presentation a lot, no treble issues, a more relaxed presentation and that weekend I could listen to ANY recording without fear of any treble nasty slapping me across the ears. The Meridian goes back so I was convinced that the issues are source related. So I plan on addressing both the CDP and TT/phonostage.

6. An Opus21 turns up in Cloney's so I take it on loan yesterday. I had expections of a smooth relaxed sound given my experience of the player before. To my disappointment, the treble resonance is still there with this player albeit with the player from cold start. It is more relaxed in its presentation compared to the Wadia which is I like but when I tried out one of my 'problematic' recordings, I noticed the treble thing straight away. I will continue with it today given that I have some time off work so I've by no means come to a definite conclusion yet. The player has now been turned on since yesterday evening so its now ready from some critical listening.
Note that I did come across a comment on another forum that some had a glaring treble issue in their system with this player.

So try draw conclusions from all of that! (Apart from telling me that I should have left well enough alone in the first place!)

Perhaps its a very fussy system synergy thing going on here. The Meridian G07 (now discontinued) was fine so I may have a look at the newer G08.2 now. At first I need to be sure about this Opus 21. There is also the possiblity that the system is now so revealing that ANYTHING in the chain be it a component or recording will be exposed for what the are.

Dave, I feel your pain!

To answer your first question, the changing sound issue is still there, although the improvement in overall quality means that even when things disimprove it's still tolerable. I spoke to Ivan about the issue and he said they used to have similar variability in the shop, which they later were able to tie to voltage dips in the evening. His old mains voltage monitor seems to be broken, so he's getting another which I will be able to borrow. It will be very interesting to see how we get on there, but even if this *is* the problem, I'm not clear how I'm going to fix it without spending wodges of cash. Still, that's another day's worry.

Now, onto your continued issue!

First off I'll say that when I did a comparison of the Opus 21 with the Wadia 581SE, I felt the Opus was just as forward as the Wadia in terms of tonal balance, if not even more so. In my mind that player is more about pace and rhythm than it is tonal richness, but to be fair that's based on one listening session a long time ago.

There's no doubt that the Kharma is a "revealing" speaker, and I now have no doubt that it can stray into brightness if you're not careful, so even without upstream components being bright themselves I think things can lean forward if the synergy isn't there. I know the problem myself, I've had it for years. If there's one thing that's becoming clearer to me it's that merely putting a collection of great components together does not actually guarantee great sound, especially as you get into the higher-end. It's ridiculous, but I'm convinced it's true.

My gut is that you have a problem with synergy, not with any individual product being "bad", but it's definitely a solvable problem. It sounds to me like you definitely want to keep the Kharmas but you have some doubts about both source and (although it's hard to admit) amp. I think if I were you I'd keep the amp and start sampling every CD player that came to hand, but that does leave the TT issue. I'm loathe to suggest getting back on the amp merry-go-round, partly because it's VERY difficult to find the right amp for Kharmas (see above) and partly because the Air Tight is such a quality machine. I'm inclined to think that a source change with the Air Tight will ultimately give better results than an amp change with the Wadia. Of course, I say that without actually having heard the Air Tight with the CRM3.2FEs. Have you sampled any other amps with the Kharmas, even to give you confirmation of the quality of the Air Tight?

One way or the other experimentation is key, and while it's a pain in the arse, at least if you try lots of things you'll be much more confident when you get the right thing, and that should hopefully fend off audiophilia nervosa for a month or two at least.

What followed was one of the most enjoyable sessions of hifi listening I've ever had. The sound with the Graaf in place was so far ahead of anything else I'd ever had in the house that I almost couldn't believe it. I don't know whether it's simply a question of synergy but my God it was awesome. I knew I was onto something really good when I found myself tapping my feet, swaying and virtually dancing in the listening seat, without thinking about any of the usual hifi stuff.

That's exactly what you need, well done Simon, I'm very pleased for you.

Diapason wrote:My gut is that you have a problem with synergy, not with any individual product being "bad", but it's definitely a solvable problem. It sounds to me like you definitely want to keep the Kharmas but you have some doubts about both source and (although it's hard to admit) amp. I think if I were you I'd keep the amp and start sampling every CD player that came to hand, but that does leave the TT issue. I'm loathe to suggest getting back on the amp merry-go-round, partly because it's VERY difficult to find the right amp for Kharmas (see above) and partly because the Air Tight is such a quality machine. I'm inclined to think that a source change with the Air Tight will ultimately give better results than an amp change with the Wadia. Of course, I say that without actually having heard the Air Tight with the CRM3.2FEs. Have you sampled any other amps with the Kharmas, even to give you confirmation of the quality of the Air Tight?

One way or the other experimentation is key, and while it's a pain in the arse, at least if you try lots of things you'll be much more confident when you get the right thing, and that should hopefully fend off audiophilia nervosa for a month or two at least.

I tried Fran's amps which sounded not much different or at least they showed up the same treble issue as described above. I also briefly tried a Electrocompaniet 70w solid state amp. While the treble issue was not there, the magical qualities that the Airtight had just wasnt there.

So......
Fran's amps had problems in my system but in his system they are very fine indeed.
The Wadia isnt the right match in my system with the Airtight.
The Meridian G07 sounded far far better and it was a sound that I could have easily lived with.
But your Wadia now sounds fine with your Kharma's but not until you found the right amp.
Briano's Wadia(heavily modified) sounds fine with his Airtight.

Surely this all points to synergy issues as you pointed out above.

There is also a futher complication in that when I got my Kharma's the midrange driver was brand new. So it has being changing in character over the last number of months and at this stage it's bass has bloomed nicely. The overall sound has settled down over the past few month.

All the above would suggest that it just a case of simply finding the right CD player and that the Kharma/Airtight combo isnt at fault.......................but then I have the treble issue with my TT although to a far far smaller degree. So is it the Airtight?

I have to say though I've being listening to the Opus all morning/noon here and Im quite liking it. Sure, it has the treble thing depending on what recording played but even when it is there, its not fatigueing like the Wadia. I hated listening to large choral works with the Wadia but here now, Im listening to Brahm's Requiem and it sounds glorious.

It was a great pity I didn't bring my transport and dac that day DaveF - it would have been very interesting to see how it worked out.

However - I think you have the answer to your problem. You have a hi-end system that is now very open and revealing. The Meridian sounded great - the other CDPs not as much. Like Si says, you need to test more sources to get the one that matches your system - either more CDPs or else (to throw in another variable) transport and DAC.

I have a suspicion regarding CDPs like the Opus and Wadias. They are built to be open, crisp and maybe even "bright". In most systems, they will sound great becuase of the openess and clarity, but in the higher end systems they can tip the balance too far.

Fran

By the way Dave could you list the 'problematic' recordings....So sorry to hear about your continuing hi fi dilemma and even though it's hard to believe at this stage, everything will eventually click :) I remember my year of hell after my beloved Musical Fidelity sat down (in front of the flashing lights of the Christmas tree circa '93!). A year of almost constant demoing drove me to the brink.. That's one reason I detest demoing even to this day!!

DaveF wrote:All the above would suggest that it just a case of simply finding the right CD player and that the Kharma/Airtight combo isnt at fault.

If you want to borrow the Lector after Christmas we could arrange something.