Anyone interested in good clocks

[Sligolad]

No Pearse, I linked to a non DIY version here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital- ... ost4784068

It's a board with all you stated already mounted - a 22.XXX & 24.XXX MHz laptec clock, etc - all you have to do is provide power (9V to 12V DC) & connect the board's clock outputs to where your current Lampi 22.XXXX & 24.XXXMhz clocks are. The board is called TWTMC All-in-One

You are already using external clocks - a Dexa clock or something like it, aren't you, Pearse? This is a far better performing option, IMO (& far cheaper)

I thought at €60 to replace your two Lampi clocks was a steal

Now Nige & I would probably hack the board a bit to provide more direct battery power & remove a regulator or two but that's just us :)

Thanks John, I tried to find where I could order TWTMC All-in-One but after reading through lots of pages gave up and went to the Group Buy thread.
Added the following:
- Sligolad: 1 x SC 22.5792 MHz, 1 x SC 24.5760 MHz, 1 x SC 45.1584 MHz, 1 x SC 49.1520 MHz, 2 x TWTMC-D&D

I believe you on the Dexa's as I have tried them and was not wowed with the improvement on the Amanero but that could be down to my lack of implementation skills.
I ordered the higher speed crystals as well given that when I added the 22.5792 Dexa to the JL Sounds card which uses higher speed clocks I ended up with half speed music, interesting that it played but it did.

Even at €100 it is a steal and it will be interesting to see if they outperform the Oscillator board with Crystek CCHD-957 clocks from JL Sounds which is more expensive.
Hope Andrea get's the numbers soon.

[jkeny]

No Pearse, I linked to a non DIY version here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital- ... ost4784068

It's a board with all you stated already mounted - a 22.XXX & 24.XXX MHz laptec clock, etc - all you have to do is provide power (9V to 12V DC) & connect the board's clock outputs to where your current Lampi 22.XXXX & 24.XXXMhz clocks are. The board is called TWTMC All-in-One

You are already using external clocks - a Dexa clock or something like it, aren't you, Pearse? This is a far better performing option, IMO (& far cheaper)

I thought at €60 to replace your two Lampi clocks was a steal

Now Nige & I would probably hack the board a bit to provide more direct battery power & remove a regulator or two but that's just us :)

Thanks John, I tried to find where I could order TWTMC All-in-One but after reading through lots of pages gave up and went to the Group Buy thread.
Added the following:
- Sligolad: 1 x SC 22.5792 MHz, 1 x SC 24.5760 MHz, 1 x SC 45.1584 MHz, 1 x SC 49.1520 MHz, 2 x TWTMC-D&D

I believe you on the Dexa's as I have tried them and was not wowed with the improvement on the Amanero but that could be down to my lack of implementation skills.
I ordered the higher speed crystals as well given that when I added the 22.5792 Dexa to the JL Sounds card which uses higher speed clocks I ended up with half speed music, interesting that it played but it did.

Even at €100 it is a steal and it will be interesting to see if they outperform the Oscillator board with Crystek CCHD-957 clocks from JL Sounds which is more expensive.
Hope Andrea get's the numbers soon.

I knew you couldn't resist :)

I think to add an order for this all-in-one board you just specify TWTMC-AIO to the list of what you want?

Don't know if he has bare, unstuffed all-in-one pcbs for sale - could then do our own variants?

[rickmcinnis]

jkeny,

I should have said AKIN to feedback. I have no idea if there is any feedback used but I worry that any electronic trick to appear as lower phase noise might not really work in the dynamic world of audio. Just my assumption based on my experience and that of others.

STILL the biggest thing is the CABLE! I would think any distance from the crystal to the circuit could quickly swamp the goodness.

I know I have lots more to learn in an increasingly short time to learn it but what cable would one use? If I had to use a cable I think I would feel better with a soldered joint instead of a connector. Just my bias. Plus I bet a GOOD connector would be very expensive and I am cheap (see Americanized last name for verification).

[jkeny]

jkeny,

I should have said AKIN to feedback. I have no idea if there is any feedback used but I worry that any electronic trick to appear as lower phase noise might not really work in the dynamic world of audio. Just my assumption based on my experience and that of others.

You are confusing matters here, Rick. The only thing that brings down the phase noise in the below 10Hz freq region is the crystal itself, not the electronics - no feedback tricks going on to make measurements look better.

STILL the biggest thing is the CABLE! I would think any distance from the crystal to the circuit could quickly swamp the goodness.

I know I have lots more to learn in an increasingly short time to learn it but what cable would one use? If I had to use a cable I think I would feel better with a soldered joint instead of a connector. Just my bias. Plus I bet a GOOD connector would be very expensive and I am cheap (see Americanized last name for verification).

You are making too much of this, I feel. That ufl connector & associated coax shielded cable is what is used for frequencies into GHz. There is no downside to it - it should be far better than a soldered straight short wire carrying 22.XXXMHz

[wushuliu]

Hmm wonder if I can use one with the soekris DAC.

[Crom]

Nice catch John. I too had been following that thread but got blinded to the updates...it's been a few years. Anyway, good to hear something is happening.

It's a pity that the all-in-one isn't available for 45/49M as that would enable me to compare apples and apples between these clocks and the dexas. I've stuck my name down for an all-in-one though.

It's a pity also that 24M crystals aren't available. Can anyone hazard a guess what would happen if I supplied 24.5M into a USB hub chip that was expecting 24M?
I have to admit that I'm a bit lost as to which bits I need if I want to DIY...where do I need the ovens, for instance?

@sligolad - I share you scepticism re the dexa. I have a few here and although they have all bettered what I had - even when the clock was battery-powered - the cost:benefit balance is far from good. They also appear to refuse to publish any meaningful data on the clock outputs...phase noise would be the one I'd like to see!! When I stuck the output of one into a scope yesterday the wave shape was pretty distorted - the overshoot on the rising edge was substantial (but very little ringing afterwards). Having said all that, I've been doing some experimenting recently and the 24M dexa clock resulted in a musicality that the other clocks and power options I tried just couldn't match. So, frankly, I don't care what shape the waveform is ;-) The above test was done with about 70cm of cable from the clock to the board. When I get around to boxing it up I'll be able to get it down to about 10cm.

@Rickmcinnis - those SMA/SMB cable connectors are fantastic. I've got 2 mounted underneath my FIFO for the dac mclocks and you just screw them in and they work. They let me use fatter coax than the u.fl connectors which has a small but tangible impact to the sound. The smaller u.fl connectors pop out all the time and break after a few insertions - particularly if you use anything but hair thin coax as the cable is too inflexible and pulls the plugs out.

I also use this type:
http://uk.farnell.com/radiall/r11466500 ... /4194548za

This is the diameter of cable I use where possible:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-RG-178-RG178 ... 1056828368

Crom

[jkeny]

Nice catch John. I too had been following that thread but got blinded to the updates...it's been a few years. Anyway, good to hear something is happening.

It's a pity that the all-in-one isn't available for 45/49M as that would enable me to compare apples and apples between these clocks and the dexas. I've stuck my name down for an all-in-one though.

It's a pity also that 24M crystals aren't available. Can anyone hazard a guess what would happen if I supplied 24.5M into a USB hub chip that was expecting 24M?

I don't think it would work - the 24MHz (or 12Mhz or 48MHz) clocks are multiplied up to give the 480MHz base clock used for high speed USB 2.0 operation.

I have to admit that I'm a bit lost as to which bits I need if I want to DIY...where do I need the ovens, for instance?

You need a clock, one of the pcbs to mount it on (they come in different flavours, Clapp, Pierce, Driscoll - depends on the electronic configuration used to oscillate the crystal) - the oven is just used to heat up & keep the crystal at a fixed temperature which is said to give some extra stability

@sligolad - I share you scepticism re the dexa. I have a few here and although they have all bettered what I had - even when the clock was battery-powered - the cost:benefit balance is far from good. They also appear to refuse to publish any meaningful data on the clock outputs...phase noise would be the one I'd like to see!! When I stuck the output of one into a scope yesterday the wave shape was pretty distorted - the overshoot on the rising edge was substantial (but very little ringing afterwards). Having said all that, I've been doing some experimenting recently and the 24M dexa clock resulted in a musicality that the other clocks and power options I tried just couldn't match. So, frankly, I don't care what shape the waveform is ;-) The above test was done with about 70cm of cable from the clock to the board. When I get around to boxing it up I'll be able to get it down to about 10cm.

@Rickmcinnis - those SMA/SMB cable connectors are fantastic. I've got 2 mounted underneath my FIFO for the dac mclocks and you just screw them in and they work. They let me use fatter coax than the u.fl connectors which has a small but tangible impact to the sound. The smaller u.fl connectors pop out all the time and break after a few insertions - particularly if you use anything but hair thin coax as the cable is too inflexible and pulls the plugs out.

Sorry, yes you're correct - they are SMA/B connectors & not u.fl as I misnamed them.

I also use this type:
http://uk.farnell.com/radiall/r11466500 ... /4194548za

This is the diameter of cable I use where possible:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-RG-178-RG178 ... 1056828368

Crom

Thanks, useful info

[rickmcinnis]

Put my name on the list.

Are you there under another alias?

I will solder and not use a connector. I hope the board is smaller than it looks. Assuming any of us ever see this stuff.

Last concern - selection. Wouldn't a selection process be just as important for the crystal? The cost of these crystals makes me hope selection has already been done.

[jkeny]

Put my name on the list.

Are you there under another alias?

I will solder and not use a connector. I hope the board is smaller than it looks. Assuming any of us ever see this stuff.

Last concern - selection. Wouldn't a selection process be just as important for the crystal? The cost of these crystals makes me hope selection has already been done.

You need to put your name on the list yourself

The selection of crystals that pass the quality test is what you are paying for i.e the manufacturing yield

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital- ... ost4050836
"the most important feature of the above crystal is that its features are standardized and repeatable.
The crystal is individually polished and tested from the manufacturer, that throw out the devices that not performs as specified.
When I got the first batch of 5 crystals, they were accompanied with a list where each crystal is tested individually. This list contains 12 tested crystals, but 5 only of them passed the selection."

[rickmcinnis]

I did, of course, put my name on the list MYSELF which is why I noticed nothing I recognized as yours. I hoped you would infer the "I".

Funny that that would be your first interpretation of my abbreviated statement.

Oh, well ...