Yes I know, preferably both.
Still, I've been thinking about this recently. Do you want your hifi to sound gorgeous, even if that means coloured, or would you prefer an honest, warts n' all presentation? Historically I've favoured the warts n' all, but I'm not so sure now.
Truth or Beauty?
Truth or Beauty?
Nerdcave: ...is no more!
Sitting Room: Wadia 581SE - Rega Planar 3/AT VM95ML & SH - Bluesound Node II - Copland CSA 100 - Audioplan Kontrast 3
Kitchen: WiiM Pro - Wadia 151 - B&W 685s2
Sitting Room: Wadia 581SE - Rega Planar 3/AT VM95ML & SH - Bluesound Node II - Copland CSA 100 - Audioplan Kontrast 3
Kitchen: WiiM Pro - Wadia 151 - B&W 685s2
Re: Truth or Beauty?
Definitely not all out honesty! For the simple reason in that not all recordings are of the same quality. I think a small bit of warmth goes a long long way to making even the most terrible of recordings listenable. My speakers give me that so I dont need an overly warm or cuddly amp with them, hence the Devialet which may as well be a perfect wire regardless of it being fed from a CDP or TT.
As I've said before, my hifi journey has now led me to finding a system which is a 'line of best fit' through all my recordings.
Honest systems/monitors are for studios who need to know exactly whats happening.
That said, people love the valves and vinyl despite their distortions and believe that their presentation is more life like and therefore more honest. I'd agree.
Still, I've never figured out why a system with certain levels of distortion sound more like the real instrument.
Some key element must be lost in the recording chain and somehow added back in the playback system when valves/vinyl are used.
As I've said before, my hifi journey has now led me to finding a system which is a 'line of best fit' through all my recordings.
Honest systems/monitors are for studios who need to know exactly whats happening.
That said, people love the valves and vinyl despite their distortions and believe that their presentation is more life like and therefore more honest. I'd agree.
Still, I've never figured out why a system with certain levels of distortion sound more like the real instrument.
Some key element must be lost in the recording chain and somehow added back in the playback system when valves/vinyl are used.
Last edited by DaveF on Mon May 26, 2014 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I may skip. I may even warp a little.... But I will never, ever crash. I am your friend for life. " -Vinyl.
Michell Gyrodec SE, Hana ML cart, Parasound JC3 Jr, Stax LR-700, Stax SRM-006ts Energiser, Quad Artera Play+ CDP
Michell Gyrodec SE, Hana ML cart, Parasound JC3 Jr, Stax LR-700, Stax SRM-006ts Energiser, Quad Artera Play+ CDP
Re: Truth or Beauty?
Euphonic makes me Euphoric!!
Also beautiful looking, (not necessarily bling- think Nagra)
Also beautiful looking, (not necessarily bling- think Nagra)
Brass Bands are all very well in their place -
outdoors and several miles away....
outdoors and several miles away....
Re: Truth or Beauty?
Why have you begun doubting the honest presentation?Diapason wrote:Yes I know, preferably both.
Still, I've been thinking about this recently. Do you want your hifi to sound gorgeous, even if that means coloured, or would you prefer an honest, warts n' all presentation? Historically I've favoured the warts n' all, but I'm not so sure now.
I want a faithfull replay of the performance, not one made to sound 'nice'.
If a recording is bad it is allowed to sound bad. If it is unlistenable I won't buy it and they will get a bad press about it. That will teach them :-).
No, I don't want my replay to be artificially nicened, it will reduce the truly good to a mediocre replay as well, all sounding the same.
So warts it is.
More interesting:
Less interesting:
Even though the second one looks nicer :-)
Cheers
Aleg
HDPLEX;picoPSU;ASUS Q87M;i7-4770T;PH SR7EHD;Server2012R2;Thesycon 2.24;
JCAT USB;Sonicweld DiverterHR2;Naim DC1;Chord Hugo;Morrow Audio MA6;Naim NAC-282,SuperCapDR;NAP-300;
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JCAT USB;Sonicweld DiverterHR2;Naim DC1;Chord Hugo;Morrow Audio MA6;Naim NAC-282,SuperCapDR;NAP-300;
AQ Cinnamon;GISO GB;Netgear Pro+XM21X;Cisco SG300;NAS-ZFS.
Re: Truth or Beauty?
Air brushed effect is it
I'm not into smoothing effect of detail or colouring for me it takes away more than it gives
Is it not a realism of the recordings were after
As long as it's done well no earache I'm happy with a detailed presentation
I'm not into smoothing effect of detail or colouring for me it takes away more than it gives
Is it not a realism of the recordings were after
As long as it's done well no earache I'm happy with a detailed presentation
sd card player, modded soekris dac, class a lifepo4 amp or gb class a/b amp, diy open baffle speakers based on project audio mundorf trio 10's
Re: Truth or Beauty?
But thats the key issue. We don't know how the real performance was because we weren't there. As you know, what we hear is what passes through the recording chain, mic placement etc and more importantly what settings the engineer dialed in during the mixing process. We'll never truely know of what their intentions were unless documented. Sometimes they do a wonderful job, other times they ought be taken outside and beaten over the head with a rake. Repeatedly.nige2000 wrote:
Is it not a realism of the recordings were after
A little bit of valviness or a slight deviation from precisely of whats on disc doesnt necessarily take away from the experience. In some cases its a necessary 'evil' in order to be able to sit hours on end listening without fatigue.
"I may skip. I may even warp a little.... But I will never, ever crash. I am your friend for life. " -Vinyl.
Michell Gyrodec SE, Hana ML cart, Parasound JC3 Jr, Stax LR-700, Stax SRM-006ts Energiser, Quad Artera Play+ CDP
Michell Gyrodec SE, Hana ML cart, Parasound JC3 Jr, Stax LR-700, Stax SRM-006ts Energiser, Quad Artera Play+ CDP
Re: Truth or Beauty?
My understanding of the topic is much simpler. I am in it for pleasure of listening. How do I get there I do not really mind that much and I am not even trying to name it what it means to me. The good news is that I always know when I am achieving it :)
I had DAC which was originating from strictly PRO company and I did not like it at all. Based on this experience I do not think my system is truthful to the recorded music in the sense of studio gear.
I had DAC which was originating from strictly PRO company and I did not like it at all. Based on this experience I do not think my system is truthful to the recorded music in the sense of studio gear.
i5@800mhz haswell, 16gb @800mhz, H87 mb with PPA TCXO, PPA V1 USB
no storage of any kind, SATA disabled in BIOS, RAMos, W2012 R2, AO 1.26, MQN
Teradak ATX LPSU 210W & 5v LPSU for clean 5v to DAC
Meitner MA-1, Primare Pre30 + A33.2, Zingali HM 2.10+
no storage of any kind, SATA disabled in BIOS, RAMos, W2012 R2, AO 1.26, MQN
Teradak ATX LPSU 210W & 5v LPSU for clean 5v to DAC
Meitner MA-1, Primare Pre30 + A33.2, Zingali HM 2.10+
Re: Truth or Beauty?
I know where your coming fromDaveF wrote:But thats the key issue. We don't know how the real performance was because we weren't there. As you know, what we hear is what passes through the recording chain, mic placement etc and more importantly what settings the engineer dialed in during the mixing process. We'll never truely know of what their intentions were unless documented. Sometimes they do a wonderful job, other times they ought be taken outside and beaten over the head with a rake. Repeatedly.nige2000 wrote:
Is it not a realism of the recordings were after
A little bit of valviness or a slight deviation from precisely of whats on disc doesnt necessarily take away from the experience. In some cases its a necessary 'evil' in order to be able to sit hours on end listening without fatigue.
I wouldn't disagree
Detail can bring fatigue
It's the fine subtleties that brings it all together for me
I try to lead with detail and then try to remove the harshness/edge/fatigue without losing anything
sd card player, modded soekris dac, class a lifepo4 amp or gb class a/b amp, diy open baffle speakers based on project audio mundorf trio 10's
Re: Truth or Beauty?
Aleg, I would have been 100% on your side up until quite recently, but I've realised that quality of recording dictates my listening far too much now, and I want to do something about that. I'm a bit tired of putting on, e.g. Led Zeppelin and then turning it off straight away because it sounds horrible. Now, some of this is probably a function of my own system not *actually* giving me the truth, but one way or the other I'm starting to wonder if my old view of "bad recordings should sound bad" really makes any sense. As sebna says, I'm in it for pleasure, and if I discover that a lot of my recordings don't sound all that pleasurable, maybe I should change my approach?
I'm torn on this question, though, and I'll probably end up trying to find some kind of middle ground a la DaveF. I mean, ultimately you have to ask "what is truth in recording?" and all that.
I'm torn on this question, though, and I'll probably end up trying to find some kind of middle ground a la DaveF. I mean, ultimately you have to ask "what is truth in recording?" and all that.
Nerdcave: ...is no more!
Sitting Room: Wadia 581SE - Rega Planar 3/AT VM95ML & SH - Bluesound Node II - Copland CSA 100 - Audioplan Kontrast 3
Kitchen: WiiM Pro - Wadia 151 - B&W 685s2
Sitting Room: Wadia 581SE - Rega Planar 3/AT VM95ML & SH - Bluesound Node II - Copland CSA 100 - Audioplan Kontrast 3
Kitchen: WiiM Pro - Wadia 151 - B&W 685s2
Re: Truth or Beauty?
I know I'll be shot for this but I have to say it: it's one of the main reasons why I never entertained a Naim system. Why do you think they were coupled with a Linn tt?? I believe they're a much more forgiving beast nowadays :) At the end of the day it's about balance and synergy.... Can I go now ;)Diapason wrote:Aleg, I would have been 100% on your side up until quite recently, but I've realised that quality of recording dictates my listening far too much now, and I want to do something about that. I'm a bit tired of putting on, e.g. Led Zeppelin and then turning it off straight away because it sounds horrible. Now, some of this is probably a function of my own system not *actually* giving me the truth, but one way or the other I'm starting to wonder if my old view of "bad recordings should sound bad" really makes any sense. As sebna says, I'm in it for pleasure, and if I discover that a lot of my recordings don't sound all that pleasurable, maybe I should change my approach?
I'm torn on this question, though, and I'll probably end up trying to find some kind of middle ground a la DaveF. I mean, ultimately you have to ask "what is truth in recording?" and all that.