JLP wdm-ks player

[nige2000]

dunno what this is all about

i dont know when equipment didn't matter to sound quality

that said i can tell difference between MQn and JLP on a ordinary pc with headphones, but is far far more pronounced on my main system

same thing when i plug my laptop into my main system i get a much lower SQ
if i swap my usb cable with a printer cable i lower sq
if i use smps power supplies i lower sq
if i enable unnecessary stuff in the bios i lower sq

theres a reason we've modified and upgraded our systems it wasn't to pass the time

different speakers have different frequency ranges too

loads of things contribute to the maximum obtainable SQ, and equipment matters quite a bit

and cost of equipment doesn't determine SQ, thats just silly

[Aleg]

Aleg,
it’s interesting discussion to have.

The problems I see with listing your gear is:
• Other people might not have heard your gear. Therefore can have no point of reference
• People have incorrectly preconceived ideas about your gear.
• Published reviews of your gear are inconsistent with your own personal findings.
• What if your gear is DIY? – Nobody else has heard it.
• What if your gear is modified?
• What if you gear cost $5?
• What if your gear cost $300,000? What does the cost matter really? Will people judge because of the cost?
• So many possible combinations of gear, no one can possibly know what component X sounds when driving speaker Y, fed with source Z
• How big is your room?
• Please list the room modes?
• Anyone got a trace of their room?
• Equalised or non-equalised?
• Passive or active crossover?

At the end of the day, we are all discussing sound – our own perception of it from our own different systems. When someone writes on a forum that they can hear no difference between X and Y, which are different, then I make my own judgement regarding their hearing and their system. This is for all of us to do privately.
With regard to anything to do with my audio system, if I change something or anything, I can usually hear a difference, and these days try to qualify my own observations by going back to previously used gear, or software, or cables or whatever to gain some perspective. To gain perspective is very important! Are other people going back and trying older versions of MQN JLP etc?

Sometimes things do sound a little different. It is very important for the individual to decide if this difference is an important difference, or an unimportant difference.

If someone says something sounds better, it is up to them to say why. If they are able to say “ I hear more microdetails and vibrations” or whatever, then that is a good way of expressing an observation. If someone says “bass is stronger and deeper” using MQN vs JLP, then this is a good observation. They have begun to qualify their statement.

We must have some faith that people know what they are talking about. If not, there is nothing wrong with politely asking for more information, but ultimately we must have good faith that a person is telling the truth as they hear it.
Most people on this forum are really good helpful interesting people. I enjoy it here very much.

If I was to throw an idea out there:
Perhaps it’s better to say what sort of sound you prefer. Or what sort of sound offends you?
I’ve met people who have told me that they don’t like big bass sounds – it hurts their ears. Also some people don’t like too much treble for the same reason.

I'm not sure I like the question "How resolving is your system ?" because there is no such thing as the perfect audio component. Even amongst the "most resolving" equipment, in my experience, the presentation of the sound changes, but all good gear is clear, dynamic, and satisfying to listen to when matched properly.

I think the short answer is that people build sound systems. People choose equipment based on various factors, and price is one of them.
If we all ask ourselves if we had unlimited money what system would we buy?
If we say we will keep just one component we presently own and use, then we know we own at least one good component.

Perhaps an appropriate answer is "my system is resolving enough to hear differences between MQN and JLP"

Hi Erin

Thank you for your thoughtful posting. I love reading your posting which express a lot of serious thinking.

On the one hand I agree with you that one cannot ever know all gear and combinations of gear and also there is a pitfall of peoples' opinions being 'judged' according to the price level of their gear. That is all true and in the end there is only one thing that matters, and that is "do you like what you hear on your gear".
But (I love 'but's ;-)) I also like to know a bit about the context in which they experience things. Sound quality is never absolute, but always relative and subjective. I find that I also would like to know what people prefer as a type of sound (I try to express that in my feedback by telling what I find lacking or what I find improved between versions) and I think that type of preferred sound also expresses itself to a certain degree in the type of gear people use. One must be care not to judge peoples's opinions on their gear alone, but it does give a bit of sense of their context. And when I don't know a brand I can just ignore that aspect and for other brands / combinations I know "ah that has a character such and so, so than I expect it to sound a bit xyz". When I hear certain things differently than others, I'm also curious as to why and whether I'm missing something or not able to hear something or people preferring different qualities to sound or a certain character of sound.

I know that on the forum of Steve Hoffman the mastering engineer, they also do ask to publish your gear list just to put remarks about recordings into some kind of context, because not everything sounds equal, and not to be judgmental about opinions.

I agree with your suggestion that it is worthwhile to know peoples' preferred sound qualities, because that shows what they aim for and gives a reference point which shows their preferred progression from their remarks.

But for Gordon as developer, what is it he should aim for? Peoples' feedback give their preferred sound characteristics, which he and we ourselves (by tweaks) are able to change. Is it possible for him to have some 'absolute' reference point for him to focus on?

I notice I have strong preferrences for MQn because of certain sound characteristics it shows, which JLP can not (yet). I think a majority on this forum prefers the qualities of MQn over those of JLP, so IMO he should aim for MQn-quality, but I believe he himself has a different opinion and preference.
So is there an objective goal of what a software player should sound/behave like in different systems?
Should it be as transparent and as detailed as possible, so as not to 'impose' a certain character and let the character and details come from the music, the hifi-gear and the computer itself (that's my opinion). Or should it be made to sound nice on the gear used by the developer or by a majority of users?

I also like this forum very much and feel we should be (and normally are) empathetic towards each others opinions and each others choice of gear. Which sometimes can be like walking on a knife's edge if one wants to express a strong opinion {Guilty as charged ;-)) on a subject as well.

Cheers

Aleg

[jesuscheung]

nice said aleg

most people here have good hardware gears.
so, for most people here, i bet the biggest bottleneck is OS + software player. that's why we are here

if OS + software makes bad jitters, you cannot solve it by buying more expensive hardware

fix where the jitters originate. that's how i feel about hifi.

[2channelaudio]

Ok guys,

This is a call to get the thread back on topic.
We haven't really seen any detailed reviews/impressions of v31, so I hope this will instigate JLP discussion....

I did some listening to JLP v31 and portaudio v21...
Here are my subjective opinions.....re its SQ and presentation

Tonal balance.
JLP v31 has continued its favoured tilt/emphasis towards mid/highs....
Personally for me, this is a problem as I like a well balanced presentation with;

- Rich, tonal and detailed bass.....
- Transparent/holographic mid/high spectrum.

I still feel Mqn provides a better spectrum balance and musicality...

I admit JLP's (v31) presentation could sound appealing to some, as it sounds like a more detailed presentation (than previous versions) or that a higher level of detail is being retrieved from the recording... However I argue the HF balance is out, with upper HF freq's over emphasised, comparing v27 to v31 theres a clear upper HF gain...

In JLP's defence there is more sparkle which could suit slightly laid back systems.

Maybe utilising a USB DAC, DAC or USB>SPDIF converter with is slightly warm/relaxed presentation would be a more synergistic match for JLP... With my Yellowtec puc2 lite/linear power, presentation is not right.

Mids
In my system it is easy to hear a tilted or forward balance change, as its already quite dry & detailed in the mid/highs regions.

Particularly noticeable is JLP v31' flatness V Mqn's holographic midrange presentation.
Mqn is still richer through the mids, Mqn has life and feeling, where as JLP is still flat in comparison.

Personally, I'm not sure JLP needs any more detail retrieval capability, if anything JLP needs some feeling and 3D staging brought into the player. Its missing magic and a holgraphic/3D rendering capability Mqn brings to playback.

Mid Bass attack.
On the flip side v31 is doing mid bass attack noticeably better. The bass presentation is more satisfying,
but I would still like a little more weight/emphasis through the mid bass band (as per Mqn)....to better balance the lower bass freq's and the upper mid/HF spectrum...

There's a real richness to the upper bass and holographic midrange presentation that Mqn can deliver on well recorded tracks, I still don't get this with JLP v31.

FYI, in my system most of the lower bass spectrum for me is produced by 2 x Velodyne dd10's, crossed into 2 bookshelf speakers.... (I'm in between mains speakers currently) and although the subs are not as revealing as say a high efficiency paper 15/12inch... they immediately communicate if bass weight or attack is lacking.

To provide a meaningful comparison my Integra RDV-1 spinning disc (playing the same tracks into the same DAC) provides noticeably more bass weight and attack than JLP.... Lower and upper bass freq's are balanced with each other... and bass spectrum weight is synergistic with mids and highs..

I sometimes feel that in the pursuit of transparency, bass is unfortunately the poor cousin.
If bass is not right, it impacts upper fundamentals and overall musicality and tone.

Keen to see where JLP tonally goes from here....
Keen to understand what others think... re v31 sq v21 port....
2CA

[Aleg]

...
Keen to understand what others think... re v31 sq v21 port....
2CA

I have not been able to get v30 or v31 running on my Office PC. I managed to get to v29 but versions after that the playback runs in the controller window but there is no sound.

Will try later on my main system.


Cheers

Aleg

[nige2000]

...
Keen to understand what others think... re v31 sq v21 port....
2CA

I have not been able to get v30 or v31 running on my Office PC. I managed to get to v29 but versions after that the playback runs in the controller window but there is no sound.

Will try later on my main system.


Cheers

Aleg

same result here
i havnt attempted to solve yet

[cvrle59]

...
Keen to understand what others think... re v31 sq v21 port....
2CA

I have not been able to get v30 or v31 running on my Office PC. I managed to get to v29 but versions after that the playback runs in the controller window but there is no sound.

Will try later on my main system.


Cheers

Aleg

same result here
i havnt attempted to solve yet

Same issues..

[Crom]

Hi guys,

So now I know where all the talent is :-)

Hope you don't mind me intruding and joining in, from what I've read so far this seems like a really constructive and positive forum.

I tried to install this last night and found exactly the same thing (pang USB card playing into waveio with 2.15 drivers). I thought I'd better not say anything until I'd managed to read the whole thread!!

Installs fine, player starts and looks as though a track is playing on both local webserver/controller and remote ipad controller...no sound though.

[2channelaudio]

Hi guys,

So now I know where all the talent is :-)

Hope you don't mind me intruding and joining in, from what I've read so far this seems like a really constructive and positive forum.

I tried to install this last night and found exactly the same thing (pang USB card playing into waveio with 2.15 drivers). I thought I'd better not say anything until I'd managed to read the whole thread!!

Installs fine, player starts and looks as though a track is playing on both local webserver/controller and remote ipad controller...no sound though.

Hi Crom,

Are you running squeeze-win as a service? What does your bat file look like?
Try setting your bat file or local player settings to -b 1000:2000000, depending on whether your running squeeze as a service or not.

JLP wouldn't play music when I had it set to 300:2000000, worked fine on the above settings

2CA

[Aleg]

Hi Crom,

Are you running squeeze-win as a service? What does your bat file look like?
Try setting your bat file or local player settings to -b 1000:2000000, depending on whether your running squeeze as a service or not.

JLP wouldn't play music when I had it set to 300:2000000, worked fine on the above settings

2CA

Tried it with -b 1000:2000000, but it doesn't give any sound. Waited for over a minute.
I am not running either program as a service but start them from a .bat, but that should be of no consequence however.

Cheers

Aleg