Preamp Experiences

[Steve]

After musing over all the various options to enter into the world of computer audio, I decided to try out Gerry's CP-800 who very kindly loaned it to me for a week. Idea was that I'd use the on board DAC in order to compare ripped cd's on an iPad (.aiff format) to my CDP, Wadia 581se. Normally I have the Wadia connected direct to the power amps, Jadis JA-80's, and just use the digital volume control facility on the CDP. But in order to make the comparison a little easier and not have to constantly change cables, I hooked up the Wadia via analogue in on the CP-800.

To be honest, the idea was to see if the iPad/DAC combo came close enough to the Wadia as I was thinking of fully converting to computer based audio and perhaps selling the Wadia thus enabling a cd clear out of the family living room! I thus enlisted Simon as trusted second pair of ears.

As we wound our way through a number of familiar tracks, we both agreed that the CDP was the more musical of the two sources. Detail and openness from iPad/DAC was very strong. But the overall presentation of the CDP was smoother, more controlled and had much greater depth to the soundstage. In fact it sounded so good, that I started wondering why I had thought of changing things around at all... Simon has a quite similar setup (same Wadia, same Kharma's and also with tube mono's) and asked if I thought the presentation with the Wadia through the CP-800 was much different than when direct to the power amps. I didn't necessarily think so - but thought it wise to compare..

So both of us were quite taken aback after I had turned off amps, re-jigged the connections and went back through the amp startup process. The magic that 15 mins earlier had swept us to silence was gone... The mid-range closed up and a veil was put in front of the performance. The weight of bass extension was less solid and more detached.. As Simon quite accurately said, we'd now left the live performance and gone back to listening to hi-fi..

Just to make sure it wasn't the effect of the amps cooling, we went back through process of power down, rejig cables and 2 step power on of amps with Classe back in the loop. And straight away dropped back into live performance with the magic relit...

So whatever about the experience of computer audio vs CDP, the unexpected finding was just how much of an improvement a quality preamp can bring to the scene.. One of the great advantages of the Wadia was that (I believed..) a preamp wasn't necessary. But here was the truth revealed...

The CP-800 is a really top piece of kit. With an unbelievable array of functionality. And may well have found a particular synergy in my setup as I spent well into the wee hours of the morning going back through various discs. (Gerry, again, many thanks for the loan of it!)

But as it's the first experience I've had of a preamp in my setup, I was wondering about others experiences of preamps. Particularly with valve power amps. Have most gone with valve pre and power? Or did a mix of solid state pre with valve power bring some complimentary qualities? Have others moved from a source direct in setup to one that now includes a pre?

Not sure what's going to happen with my computer audio adventures now....

[tony]

Cant help there but seemed you got a good steer Steve from the Classe. The only experience I had with preamps was uisng a cyrus 8xp preamp outputs on a Jadis DA5. Sound was alright but once we reconnected the dedicated DPL2 preamp sound leaped into another dimension.
Some of the lads have excellent pre's so sure plenty of advice will be offered on the options worth pursuing. I think the Jadis route for your amps will be pricey.

[Fran]

I think a preamp is a basic critical part of any system.

I have a tendancy to go for valve preamps, but that's not to say that there aren'texcellent SS ones either. You're experience with the CP800 confirms that right away. And your impressions are exactly what a good preamp should bring to your system!! Are you sure you don't want to reconsider letting it go!

I guess on the valve side, you tend to get "simpler" preamps. They tend to be linestages with volume and input switching. Very rarely will you get remote control, phonostages, digital inputs etc. So the purist type route I suppose.

On the SS side you tend to see much more functionality, with digital inputs, displays, remote controls, dacs, even wifi! If these are important to you then your decision has just been made easier!

I'm not really in a position to comment on commercial stuff as the ones I've tricked about with have all been homemade things, but I did hear that Jadis DPL and thought it was only gorgeous, but with very high gain. Most likely you will need attenuators, or set the output from your sources lower if possible.



Fran

[jaybee]

I'm afraid I can't comment on the pre vs source direct issue, however my experience with pre-amps; which is dominated by a combo you're familiar with, the b&k cs115/st202, was extremely positive and to a large extent has coloured what I look for in terms of sonic presentation.

I too am heading toward a more family friendly setup, but I'm brining in vinyl for the tactile experience of a listening session and will use computer audio for occasional listening and until he vinyl library is large enough to sate the appetite!

[Diapason]

As I've mentioned before, I'm also on the hunt for a pre, as the experience Steve has just described has now been repeated in various settings and I'm 100% convinced: going direct from CD to power amp isn't always the best idea.

My big quandary now is whether to risk buying unheard products based on reviews. There just aren't that many preamps available to listen to locally at the moment in my price range...

[jaybee]

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.ph ... -LS25-MK11

comme ça?

[Diapason]

That's one of them, yes!

[Sligolad]

Thought you had a Primare Integrated you could use as a Preamp Simon!

[Diapason]

Thought you had a Primare Integrated you could use as a Preamp Simon!

Nay. I had one on loan for a while a good while ago and I liked it an awful lot, but it left before the Graafs arrived. In an ideal world I'd have one of those too, just for those numerous hot summer days when the valves get too hot...

[Gerry D]

The CP-800 is a really top piece of kit. With an unbelievable array of functionality. And may well have found a particular synergy in my setup as I spent well into the wee hours of the morning going back through various discs. (Gerry, again, many thanks for the loan of it!)

Not a bother Steve. You're welcome.
And it's nice to see another thread top the Build a computer one. :-)

Seriously though, I might give the Classé another run. It is good.