Upgrade Conundrum..Pairing Wadia+Classe

[DaveF]

Do you feel that the CAM400s have solved your bass problems?

This kinda reminds me of the problems I've had over the last year. I tried all sorts of amp and source changes but in the end a speaker change was the solution. If your speaker-room combo is giving you bass problems then I'm not sure any amount of amp/sources will solve it for you unless it was a case of the Lavardin being far too weak to control the bass on the 802's in the first place.

[tony]

Cloneys now have a pair of spendor a9's in their used section. I assume traded in for the spendor st's that were there last week! I wonder would they be worth trying with the lavardin as Paul (mcq) was/is using a Lavardin to drive his spendors and seemed very satisfied. I would think spendors would not be as bassy as B&W's but might give you the better delivery of bass you are looking for. Would assume this would be a less expensive route to go.

[dhyantyke]

Yes, I'm afraid you've named the (Speaker) issue that I don't want to look at !
but may be the answer in the end.
I auditioned the Spendors, (2 types, not sure which ones tho) on my initial trip to Cloneys, but well preferred the B&W's.......I was also prejudiced as I 'coveted' a pair of B&W floorstanders for ages, and the 802's were superb in Cloneys. I also listened to 800's and 804's(?)
There's the rub...my room is quite a different proposition. Because of my emotional and irrational attachment to the 802's I'll put up with some more purgatory (and some expense) to try reach a solution that way. Bu fear what seems the worst at the moment i.e. 'System Reboot' to borrow a phrase!

[DaveF]

Those CAM400's can drive 800D's fine so the 802's should be no problem for them. If this hasn't sorted out your bass issues then no amount of cable changes or new power chords is going to solve that for you. That's just going to be time wasted and money down the drain.

You have 3 options as far as I can see:

1. Keep the 802's but try to solve the bass issue by experimenting with room position or get room treatments such as bass traps etc.

2. Use the Wadia as a transport and feed it digitally into a preamp that has advanced tone controls to adjust bass or treble response. The Classe CP-800 that I have on loan at the moment can do all this. I'll be dropping it back into Cloney's in the next week or two. It can connect to PC audio also etc.

3. A change of speakers to something else that matches your room better.

I think that the volume range issue on the Wadia is a separate thing and not related to the above. Going for option 2 above would solve that.

[dhyantyke]

Those CAM400's can drive 800D's fine so the 802's should be no problem for them. If this hasn't sorted out your bass issues then no amount of cable changes or new power chords is going to solve that for you. That's just going to be time wasted and money down the drain.

You have 3 options as far as I can see:

1. Keep the 802's but try to solve the bass issue by experimenting with room position or get room treatments such as bass traps etc.

2. Use the Wadia as a transport and feed it digitally into a preamp that has advanced tone controls to adjust bass or treble response. The Classe CP-800 that I have on loan at the moment can do all this. I'll be dropping it back into Cloney's in the next week or two. It can connect to PC audio also etc.

3. A change of speakers to something else that matches your room better.

I think that the volume range issue on the Wadia is a separate thing and not related to the above. Going for option 2 above would solve that.

Thanks for that and, Yep, I think you have nailed it in terms of the options available....
I am doing an experiment today which 'seems promising'....I'll say no more til I'm further into it. (Superstitious 'not wanting to jinx it' I'm afraid.!)

Option 2 Classe preamp looks interesting so I may book a demo after you if the current effort doesn't help significantly.

[DaveF]

Do keep us updated and good luck with it.

Mods, this thread is still in the music section. Shouldnt it be moved to 'General'?

[Diapason]

The whole "good bass standing up, no bass sitting down" is a problem I'm well familiar with and is primarily a function of speaker/room interaction. Steve had the same problem when he had 802s, in that certain bass frequencies were just about inaudible due to standing waves. No amount of cable changing and amp power will solve this particular one, but small moves in speaker and/or listening position can help. Also, clutter is good. I think the 802 design can be difficult in this regard.

Odd that you have to turn your Wadia so low. I was under the impression that it was a simple enough change, and that Wadia had designed it so that basically any amps could be accommodated. What level are you listening at with your Lavardin? 8 seems crazy low, and it makes me wonder if your player is set for very high output voltage indeed.

Mods, this thread is still in the music section. Shouldnt it be moved to 'General'?

Done

[DaveF]

Odd that you have to turn your Wadia so low. I was under the impression that it was a simple enough change, and that Wadia had designed it so that basically any amps could be accommodated. What level are you listening at with your Lavardin? 8 seems crazy low, and it makes me wonder if your player is set for very high output voltage indeed.

I was thinking the same. I had that same Wadia before and even when I was using it as a pre, the volume was never that low.

[dhyantyke]

The whole "good bass standing up, no bass sitting down" is a problem I'm well familiar with and is primarily a function of speaker/room interaction. Steve had the same problem when he had 802s, in that certain bass frequencies were just about inaudible due to standing waves. No amount of cable changing and amp power will solve this particular one, but small moves in speaker and/or listening position can help. Also, clutter is good. I think the 802 design can be difficult in this regard.

Odd that you have to turn your Wadia so low. I was under the impression that it was a simple enough change, and that Wadia had designed it so that basically any amps could be accommodated. What level are you listening at with your Lavardin? 8 seems crazy low, and it makes me wonder if your player is set for very high output voltage indeed.

Mods, this thread is still in the music section. Shouldnt it be moved to 'General'?

Done

Ref: 'standing up/sitting down bass' issue. Something of a relief that others recognise that one....I was almost embarrassed to mention it, seeing as it does imply being in a room,probably alone, and repeatedly standing up and sitting down with a funny facial expression on (anguished,confused,?, head cocked to one side or the other) for 'no apparent reason'. Imagine how it might look to the unafflicted! I am already surrounded by 'unbelievers' who just don't get the HIFI thing!
And my experience is that as you say, change in position and the addition of cushions & clutter in the room do sort that out. As above, I ended up with the speakers 5ft from the walls. Right now I am back to what feels more room friendly 3ft, and with spiking which may or may not be helping, but that problem seems largely solved.
I think the Cam400's have made a big difference to a whole range of bass frequencies as well...in that there seems a lot 'available' in the sound picture, without having the feeling that they are washing over/mixing together. This is my own makey/uppy language, maybe I am talking about 'grip' and 'control'. But there is something more comfortable and assured (?) about it all.
For the most part, problem solved. But then there is/was a particular limited range of frequencies which when featured messed the whole picture up causing unimaginable (to most!) frustration, to the point of lying awake at night imagining which internal walls I might get away with demolishing! The Leonard Cohen bass players like this frequency. I also have some cabinets at the back of the room the doors of which like to hum along with that one.
Which leads back to the room/speaker appalling vista.....
Here comes "I have a cunning plan..." i.e. the current experiment which may well be as clever as one of (Blackadder) Baldriks plans...more later.

One consequence of all the above is that I have been spending too many hours listening to fragments of music over the last 10 days or so, trying to problem discern/solve. As we say in Kerry, 'I'm gone simple from it'.
So, good to be out at work these days, limited listening time and probably in better space to assess.

Regarding the Wadia: when partnered withe the Lavardin I had the dial always at 100 and the Amp volume control at 25 to 30% generally. When plugged into the Cam's, max comfortable for me would be 30, and the track played at 08 was loud enough!.
I'm pleading complete ignorance of the technical issues here.

[dhyantyke]

Odd that you have to turn your Wadia so low. I was under the impression that it was a simple enough change, and that Wadia had designed it so that basically any amps could be accommodated. What level are you listening at with your Lavardin? 8 seems crazy low, and it makes me wonder if your player is set for very high output voltage indeed.

I was thinking the same. I had that same Wadia before and even when I was using it as a pre, the volume was never that low.

It's possible that I have your Wadia player.

I have been struggling with a head cold, headache and poppy ears for the last week so 'sound discernment' could be more impaired than usual.